Then Love Ham at 400 degrees for 18 Years

A contributor at Feminism is Empathological, I Art Laughing, has a good post on what the Resigned Loving Patriarch looks like when confronted with his own sin, from the story of Noah and Ham. Part of his summary struck a response

I think it is our job as husbands to counter the feminist culture, in the world and in our wives. We need to love our wives like Christ loved the Church, and not respond like they are God Himself when the criticize us.

One of the most fruitful fights with my wife was my persistent trivialization and condescension of Oprah, and fem-centric media in general; TV, ads, magazines, everything. Fight is not the right word: It was a years long guerrilla war. Every time I saw emotionally-based, lib-tard, anti-masculine, Feminist programming I would mock it; sneer at it; laugh at her if she was enjoying it.

Now, I don’t know if this was the best approach (and I’m not the best patriarch), but overall it was worth the fight. One sweet fruit of which was texted to me at 7:30pm the other night (I’m out of town).

20 thoughts on “Then Love Ham at 400 degrees for 18 Years

  1. Good stuff. I have been in the midst of this warfare as well, I have a 21 yr old daughter and a wife to fight it out with, and the girl, as a college student etc etc often dismisses me with “you hate women and are a chauvinist” line. My wife at least verbally agrees, overtly, but I think quietly she is yet to be convinced. The real victory is found in my sons, one 19 the other almost 16. They take pride in pointing the stuff out to me when they see it. They have looked over at me in church as said dad can we go wait in the lobby, meaning me and them, they don’t want to sit through the man bashing jokes or whatever. The 19 year old had a beautiful GF, well he is a very good looking kid and has lots of chances, and she was very sharp, solid Christian values, family, etc. But turned out her mother is German, earned a PhD in something, and her dad was diplomatic corp for the US and thats how they met.

    Anyway, by worlds standards an excellent couple, tall good looking blue eyed boy, HB10 intelligent girl driven academically, but he, after almost a year came to me and asked could we talk it through.
    He laid out his concerns…..and his plan, which was to cut it off. She was controlling him and stressing him vs his classes etc. He bolted. I felt I had some results there.

    We simply have to teach the boys, try to teach the girls but its tough to find the features and benefits list that will appeal to a young woman for being aware of the real world when they like the one they have thanks very much. Sadly the Bible has limited leverage on most of them regardless of the real status of their beliefs.

  2. I don’t believe women can really be taught, as men experience teaching. They do learn, but by only by following male authority, or by imitation of female authority. Our daughters (I have a 17-year old struggling with my rejection of college for her*) are caught between the world, and us, more than our boys are because the boys see as we see; looking at the horizon. Women navigate by touch.

    I don’t want to over-step my bounds, but if I were in your position, I’d be curious to know what my wife says to my daughter when I’m not around. Not sure how you go about that, but my initial thought is Mom is sabotaging Dad’s influence.

    *She’s been informed that if she moves off to college, we will support her in no way; except as a place for her to return, apologize, and repent. We won’t sign anything. We won’t give her any money. She will not be inquired to regarding family plans, vacations, etc.

    Dad is SO unfair.

  3. So much of what I was driving at with my Psalm 2 blog is a more Biblical reflection on the Sin of Eve and the abdication of Adam, and the establishment of Narcissism. I need to get back to it, but a summer of meditation and observation have set my wheels to contemplating the hole that feminists have put the Bible believer in.

  4. Mine lives at home to attend college, I did manage that. Wife may well be sabotaging, in fact even with best of intentions that usually happens. She isnt going directly against me, overtly. And the outward look of where I want her (daughter) to go looks same as wifes desire.
    In my case (sounds like yours too) wife and I have been in the blast furnace so ours is not the normal case at all, that doesnt men she is different per se, it just means we have a very very different and powerful context, like it seems you do as well.

  5. I guess I don’t see why you won’t send her to go to college to study for a traditionally feminine field like nursing or teacher of some sort. She is more likely to meet a higher quality man while at college, especially if she gets involved in a religious group.

  6. 1. The Bible requires that we not marry non-Christians and there are simply not enough Christian men wanting to marry to go around.

    2. As a Catholic I believe some women are called to religious vows or the celibate lay life with an emphasis on charity work.

    3. Some women are simply not attractive enough in appearance or personality to get the kind of man they would “burn” for.

  7. @ar10308

    1) There’s no way I can send her away to live at a college, and not feel like a co-conspirator with the hook-up culture; feminism; etc.

    2) There are (mostly) two sorts of guys in religious groups: guys like you, and guys like me. What are the chances the college version of you will be attractive to her? What are the chances that a college version of me would settle down? What should I hope for: that he knocks her up, and they get married? Seems like a risky ploy. The courtship model–though derided by many here–seems like the best option to me. Mostly those who laugh at courtship are the children whose parents never had faith in it.

    3) If she lives at home, she could get our support for college, but her grades and drive to learn would have to improve demonstrably before I’ll spend the family’s funds on college. We can’t forget the trade-off–whatever money I spend on her, I can’t spend on the others.

  8. Is she going to continue to live with you til someone marry’s her?

    I can’t imagine my Dad going for that. My personality isn’t easy* and he would have kicked me out well before he found a good Christian man who could stand me. Hopefully your daughter is more agreeable than I so you are not stuck with her for life.

    *by “not easy” I mean rather eccentric and an unpredictable mix of extremely verbose, intense, and expressive or closed-off and somber. Its the kind of personality that makes people wonder if I am a bit touched in the head. My husband jokes (maybe?) that God told him to marry me because nobody else could tolerate me.

  9. It’s her choice, but she knows choices have consequences. Hell, this is Texas: if she wanted to move out now, at 17, I can’t stop her.

    She doesn’t have to live at home, but if she doesn’t, who knows when Dad will stop by? All the kids know (or will know, for our youngin’s) that a decision to have pre-marital sex is a decision to live their lives unaided by the family. And if a man goes to a woman’s house alone, I assume they are fucking.

    Being easy to live with has nothing to do with it. She is my daughter. As long as she is loving and obedient, she gets the best help I can provide. I’m not perfect, and I may not always do the right thing, but I’m not a quitter.

    But disobedience is a call for dissolution of the arrangement.

  10. I used to watch the show Grey’s Anatomy when it first came on television several years ago. My husband saw one episode and said, “That show is nothing but a bunch of fornicators hopping from one bed to the next. Why are you watching that?”

    That was the end of that for me. Now I can’t stand to watch anything even remotely like it. I was always a bit sensitive to shows with the idea that women are the supreme being. A holdover from being raised in a house full of males I guess. But drama and romance? I’m a sucker for that stuff.

    My husband helped me learn to make better choices. Sci-fi and shoot ’em ups.

    As for the rest, we have an 18-year-old daughter living at home while she attends college and she understands the rules of this family and abides by them.

    I’m with Gabby though concerning the very real possibility that some of our daughters may never marry. As my girls are young black women, I feel this possibility a more acute reality than most. We would put them at a distinct disadvantage not to allow for their self-sufficiency.

    It is possible to train daughters to be submissive wives and also to be prepared for whatever life eventually has in store.

  11. I tolerate most things, but my wife had a copy of Mamma Mia (the movie with the Abba musical theme). I found it so offensively matriarchal that I broke the damn thing and chucked it out. My wife knows I won’t have it in the house.

  12. My 18 y.o daughter knows my views in detail. I give her a fair bit of freedom, but I want her to live with us at least until she gets her university degree. She knows I disapprove of sluts and slutty behaviour.

    We have a very good relationship. I don’t imagine she would make a very submissive wife, but she is no feminist either.

  13. On TV/Movies: We watch a wide variety of genres. We like Mad Men quite a bit (multi-week anger-management issues withstanding). I contend that HBO’s Rome is the best show ever made. Warning: There are A LOT of boobies, hoo-has, and talleywackers. And blood. Lots of blood; show in a visceral manner. But if you want to see what a pagan world looks like: Rome is the best representation I know of.

    My metric on the goodness of the film is not whether the topic is sinful, but whether the topic is dealt with honestly. To me, Grey’s Anatomy (for us it was later seasons of ER) is ridiculous not because they’re all fornicators, but because they’re all beautiful fornicators who never really suffer any repercussions for their fornication, adultery, sinful natures. By contrast, the characters in Mad Men are a believable mess, and become more so as their behavior gets worse. Women’s TV shows (Grey’s, Sex in the City, etc.) tend to portray–almost without variation–worlds without consequence. To whatever extent we don’t find that insulting, that reflects badly on us.

    Sci-fi can suffer from this too. “Heroes” pissed me off.

    On the Future: Our children may never marry. All I can do is be the best dad I can figure my way to be, and be as obedient to God’s revelation as I can manage.

    I also want to highlight that my and my daughter’s college issue is two-fold. 1) She’s a lousy student, and is more interested in the college experience than learning. I will not devote family funds to frivolous adventures; not for her; not for me. 2) Unlike most of the Manosphere, I don’t believe women have the same capacity for discernment that men have. In the short term: they can be fooled by their own emotions fairly easily. All I can do is teach her that fact, and offer my protection. She still has her own agency, so she has to choose to accept that protection.

    I also reject the notion that college is necessary for self-sustaining skills. I have my own business, and am willing to hire family. This is a fundamental problem with working in the corporate world (not to poop on anyone’s situation): you are less able to help others, and we Christians must be about helping others: from changing diapers, to finding meaningful and gainful employment. College is just another way Christians are outsourcing this responsibility.

    On a Happier Note: I do have one son, ladies. Let’s get to work on those dowries, and I’ll see what I can do for you!

  14. I will not devote family funds to frivolous adventures; not for her; not for me.

    Agreed, which is why our daughters will all attend college while living at home, and at this juncture they are all interested in majors that allow for flexibility and the possibility of entrepreneurship. Women can be entrepreneurs too. I was for several years as a married woman and only gave it up because we decided to have more babies.

    I have my own business, and am willing to hire family. This is a fundamental problem with working in the corporate world (not to poop on anyone’s situation): you are less able to help others, and we Christians must be about helping others: from changing diapers, to finding meaningful and gainful employment. College is just another way Christians are outsourcing this responsibility.

    I agree with this too, and didn’t feel pooped on in the least, LOL.

  15. I’ve never had one hour of college.

    Neither has my husband, in the traditional sense, believe it or not given his career and his success in it.

    I have a degree, but I could have run the same home based business without it. I agree that college is not necessary to be self-sustaining and can sometimes be a hindrance.

    I also happen to believe that in the right context, college can be useful.

  16. Pingback: Linkage Is Good For You: Truncated Moving Week | Society of Amateur Gentlemen

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