I think, ultimately, I’ve given the manosphere’s denizens far too much credit. There’s this conspiracy aspect to it that I’ve taken too seriously. This is, ironically, probably because I lack empathy. Because I’m aware of this failing, I try to take people seriously.

When I first came here, to the manosphere, I said, essentially, “Stop being such a pussy.” That did not go over well. Not only did it not go over well: the reaction was vitriolic.

“NO NO NO NO! You don’t understand the nature of the problem facing men today! It’s not men who are the problem, but women! They’re everywhere!”

They are everywhere. They don’t seem to ever shut up, sit down, or even stay out of the the locker-room–literally or figuratively. (I long for a bar with no TV, or women but perhaps the wenches…but I repeat myself.) Well, I thought, I can relate. I’ve had a lot of problems with women. Namely: that in the past my wife had not wanted to have sex with me anymore, but many other women did. I was skeptical, though, that women were the problem because I believe what scripture says about men being the leaders. Not only that it can be true, or should be true, but that it IS true; that while God’s design can be corrupted, it cannot be destroyed. We get the leaders we deserve, so to speak. Not only deserve, but need.

Now I’m confronted with this conspiracy theory of Ultimate Feminism that is oppressing men–even good ones–and it’s upheld by some very smart and well-spoken people. It has to be a conspiracy because it is circumventing the natural order, as I understand it. That is some serious shit. We MUST be talking about the ultimate conspiracy–the one that goes back to the Garden of Eden.

And there’s this guy Roissy who sounds like he’s been living in my head. The only difference is that he embraces his nature, while I’m trying to shun it. I can feel what little empathy I have left seeping away. The Dark Side feels good. That’s partially how I know it’s dark. Pain is the hallmark of the teacher.

So, what do I do? “If you’re going to be stupid, you’ve gotta be tough.” Dive into the pain. You can see this in my writing. I want to get pummeled here, and I want to pummel, as well; otherwise no one learns anything. This is why some think I’m a troll. They can’t understand why in the world I would spend my time writing thousands and thousands of words, unless I’m either trying to sidetrack the conversation, or because I just want to berate people. No, no. When someone like Dalrock, or Matt King, or Desiderius, or Vox focuses their efforts on destroying what I’ve said, I genuinely think, “Oh thank God.”, and “Oh shit” at the same time. Because while I’ll be damned if I’m going to give up my position without a fight, I am well aware that I have had to unlearn, and relearn many many things, and it’s almost always for the better. Almost. My experiences as Roissy (long before I’d ever heard of him) were the exception.Those were maiming wounds.

Now, one of these epicenters where the conspiracy is propagated from is church. It certainly is in a lot of sermons across all denominations. I’ve witnessed them myself in MANY churches; nearly all of them, in fact. My solution? Well, men need to start going to church. We need to re-capture it. The problem with a groundwar in Asia is that you can’t hold ground without men, and there simply aren’t enough men to cover Asia. The church is hardly Asia, is it? Or is it? Again: this is the Ultimate Conspiracy. So, I think in terms of the ultimate conspiracy of scripture–the attempted overthrow of Heaven. There is no other conspiracy worth spending time on, if we believe what we say we believe.

But going to church is the ultimate folly, according to the manosphere. In the way that I believe men are corrupted by, say, going to a strip club, denizens of the manosphere think going to church corrupts men. It is only acceptable to either

  • Quit church altogether (what is the point, and how can disbanding make us stronger?)
  • Go only to home-based churches (which seems very dubious to me, as our problem is lack of authority; not a surfeit of it.)
  • Go to a night-club or strip-club, because those women at least know how to treat men, and for only a drink, or a dollar.

Now, I’m getting the sense that these men really HAVE been wholly corrupted. Their pain is such that they would choose what is obviously very stupid. Paradoxically, this lends weight to the Ultimate Conspiracy theory, so I inquire more fervently, more ardently. I try to fit the pieces of the puzzle into the only Ultimate Conspiracy I know and believe to be true.

Backlash. Sure, I got some of it wrong; maybe a lot of it, but it didn’t merit the whipsaw words that it garnered. What do I do? What you always do under fire: Go to cover; which means scripture. I go back to the very beginning, and, yes, I can see some of this ultimate conspiracy, but I’m so invested now in the words of the manosphere that the legitimate conspiracy I find can only be reconciled if we understand that if we’d simply trusted God to sort things out, and continue His revelation of the world–we’d not be in this mess. That makes sense. It makes total sense. It is the paradox of knowledge and faith.

That culminates in my blog, and my comments here over the past few weeks; which has been something of a maelstrom, at least for me. Heavy-hitters have been discussing and dissing my words for weeks now.

To come back to this post: I try to take the opportunity to start again. What. Is. Game? What I don’t realize is that somewhere along the way, my priorities changed. I’m no longer trying to discern truth: I’m trying to be in solidarity with the manosphere, but I’m still telling myself that I’m looking for truth.** Danger says:

Because it involves (not)* being fearful of your masculinity.

Never fear your masculinity. God made you that way for a reason… of them being that it is a complement to femininity.

Do not fear being cocky, that is masculine.
Do not fear being aggressive, that is masculine.
Do not fear talking sexual and desiring a woman, that is masculine.

The real issue at hand, is that somehow people are accepting the notion that it is ok for a woman to define what is acceptable behavior for men.

I am gobsmacked. THIS WAS MY STARTING POSITION! My retort:

So that’s it? Game is not being fearful? It takes dozens of new definitions, hundreds of blogs, and perhaps millions of comments for a few thousand men to work out that Game is courage?

was not born of flippancy at the problems of men, but at what felt like (there’s my mistake) the unmitigated GALL to say that everything I had been working for is pointless; that I had the proper attitude from the start. It is the worst sort of farce because it is a farce I perpetrated on myself. I should have seen it coming: I had the faith in men’s ability to lead, but I did not continue in that faith, and so investigated the “knowledge” of the manosphere.

Danger is right. Matt King is right. It is commonly known here, and derided, but it is the only solution: White Knighting for a slut. Yes, this is required of the Christian, for the family, and for a stable and prosperous society.

What I should have done is taken a step back, seen the group engaged in the sexual confusion that it is, and said:

“Men, what are you doing? Stop being pussies, and start that by stopping the circle-jerk. Then go to your church, and reclaim her.”

*Parenthetical edit to retain the original meaning.

**Not only this, but I was well-taught, so bits of my white-knighting frame come through in spite of my best efforts to reign him in. This confuses my message, and those reading my message. I’m all over the map, get angry at the confusion, and so discredit myself.

18 thoughts on “Rebuke

  1. Solidarity with the manosphere is impossible unless we corrupt our doctrine. There is a conspiracy, it comes in different forms but its origin is the devil. The manosphere served its purpose of identifying that something was wrong, but it has no solutions. There is no solution, and no hope til the Lord comes. All systems, all gains are lost in time. This time there is no stop gap. Our best bet is to prepare for the collapse of this current order, and hope we can steer what comes next for a time til it falls.
    Above all we reserve our hope on Jesus and eternal life with Him, that is our anchor in the present and our joy.

  2. Solidarity cannot be my concern, one way or the other. That was my problem. It is faith in God, or nothing. He has already taken care of the solidarity of who is in, and who is out.

    Imagine, if King David had solidarity.

  3. “11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” And the woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

    Adam blames Eve.
    This is akin to the Manosphere blaming Feminism for failing their responsibility to control a woman’s nature.

  4. Easier to go native,act aggressive when the nearest woman,married or not,is in ovulation and and ready to go.
    Just like the bonobo’s the feminists love so much,it totally excuses their lust and sexual incontinence.They claim to have no agency,then demand respect as actors with agency.

    The whole point of fault divorce and religious teachings is to reign in the female lust that destroys male solidarity and civilization boundries.
    If those guys really believed in the game message they would not mind if another man banged their women,it’s just “natural.”

  5. The androsphere says interesting things but it is oblivious to the fact that Patriarchy Is. The “alphas” (see: cads) like the current situation. They set it up because they are part of the leadership group. There is no feminism per se. There is the Cad Patriarchy and the Christian Patriarchy.

  6. @GKC
    This is what I see, too, and why I won’t bother even attempting to sign on to either side’s version anymore. I can’t trust them. If nothing else good could be said about the man, I could know Roissy’s viewpoint. He was an unalloyed hedonist.

  7. Might I suggest that some of the problem in getting your case across is what CSL called ‘Christianity And’ – using Christianity as a means to a lesser good? In this case, Christianity-And-Getting-Laid, Christianity-And-Marriage, Christianity-And-Culture, Christianity-And-Western-Civilization?

  8. Absolutely. That is what I was at least starting to address in The Stupidity of the Christian Perspective.

    It ties into what GKC said above, about there is no feminism, per se. This situation is not new. The goddess worship, and men shoving other men down the pyramid to horde women for themselves.

    I think MRA is foolishness (because they’re not fighting women, but men, and themselves), but I don’t know how they ever allied themselves with players in the first place.

  9. I do. Another GKC said the answer in an only slightly different context…

    But there is another sort of superstition that does definitely look for results; what might be called a realistic superstition. And with that the question of whether spirits do answer or do appear becomes much more serious. As I have said, it seems to me pretty certain that they sometimes do; but about that there is a distinction that has been, the beginning of much evil in the world.

    Whether it be because the Fall has really brought men nearer to less desirable neighbors in the spiritual world, or whether it is merely that the mood of men eager or greedy finds it easier to imagine evil, I believe that the black magic of witchcraft has been much more practical and much less poetical than the white magic of mythology. I fancy the garden of the witch has been kept much more carefully than the woodland of the nymph. I fancy the evil field has even been more fruitful than the good. To start with, some impulse, perhaps a sort of desperate impulse, drove men to the darker powers when dealing with practical problems. There was a sort of secret and perverse feeling that the darker powers would really do things; that they had no nonsense about them. And indeed that popular phrase exactly expresses the point. The gods of mere mythology had a great deal of nonsense about them. They had a great deal of good nonsense about them; in the happy and hilarious sense in which we talk of the nonsense of Jabberwocky or the Land where the Jumblies live. But the man consulting a demon felt as many a man has felt in consulting a detective, especially a private detective; that it was dirty work but the work would really be done.. A man did not exactly go into the wood to meet a nymph; he rather went with the hope of meeting a nymph. It was an adventure rather than an assignation. But the devil really kept his appointments and even in one sense kept his promises; even if a man sometimes wished afterwards, like Macbeth, that he had broken them.

    In the accounts given us of many rude or savage races we gather that the cult of demons often came after the cult of deities, and even after the cult of one single and supreme deity. It may be suspected that in almost all such places the higher deity is felt to be too far off for appeal in certain petty matters, and men invoke the spirits because they are in a more literal sense familiar spirits. But with the idea of employing the demons who get things done, a new idea appears more worthy of the demons. It may indeed be truly described as the idea of being worthy of the demons; of making oneself fit for their fastidious and exacting society. Superstition of the lighter sort toys with the idea that some trifle, some small gesture such as throwing the salt, may touch the hidden spring that works the mysterious machinery of the world. And there is after all something in the idea of such an Open Sesame. But with the appeal to lower spirits comes the horrible notion that the gesture must not only be very small but very low; that it must be a monkey trick of an utterly ugly and unworthy sort. Sooner or later a man deliberately sets himself to do the most disgusting thing he can think of. It is felt that the extreme of evil will extort a sort of attention or answer from the evil powers under the surface of the world. This is the meaning of most of the cannibalism in the world.

    For most cannibalism is not a primitive or even a bestial habit. It is artificial and even artistic; a sort of art for art’s sake. Men do not do it because they do not think it horrible; but, on the contrary, because they do think it horrible. They wish, in the most literal sense, to sup on horrors. That is why it is often found that rude races like the Australian natives are not cannibals, while much more refined and intelligent races, like the New Zealand Maories, occasionally are. They are refined and intelligent enough to indulge sometimes in a self-conscious diabolism. But if we could understand their minds, or even really understand their language, we should probably find that they were not acting as ignorant, that is as innocent cannibals. They are not doing it because they do not think it wrong, but precisely because they do think it wrong. They are acting like a Parisian decadent at a Black Mass.

  10. forgot: From ‘The Everlasting Man’.

    Another all-too-relevant snippet from the same chapter:

    The civilization that centered in Tyre and Sidon was above all things practical. It has left little in the way of art and nothing in the way of poetry. But it prided itself upon being very efficient; and it followed in its philosophy and religion that strange and sometimes secret train of thought which we have already noted in those who look for immediate effects. There is always in such a mentality an idea that there is a short cut to the secret of all success; something that would shock the world by this sort of shameless thoroughness. They believed, in the appropriate modern phrase, in people who delivered the goods. In their dealings with their god Moloch, they themselves were always careful to deliver the goods. It was an interesting transaction, upon which we shall have to touch more than once in the rest of the narrative; it is enough to say here that it involved the theory I have suggested, about a certain attitude towards children.

    Plus ca change, hm?

  11. Pingback: Linkage. And like all good things… | Breathing Grace

  12. Hadn’t thought of that from Everlasting Man, but yes. I’m not the type to drive a wedge between “Christianity and Western Civilization”. I think Athens holding Athenians who are made in the image of God says some good things. Roissy does say good things. There’s just a certain blindness to all the rest of what he says amongst all the wrong people.

  13. I’m not the type to drive a wedge between “Christianity and Western Civilization”.

    I was trying to be careful about this, but there’s so little Jerusalem in our civilization that I have decided to largely abandon Athens until they can at least put the statue to the Unknown God back up. So, as I told Bob Wallace the other day (who has some very good writing) on Dalrock’s: to Hell with Athens. It’s not that Athens has nothing good, but even that good is distracting. These folks don’t know the Lord’s Prayer; much less the Nicene Creed.

    In this case, they don’t even know the good of Athens; who is Roissy. For example: they can’t delineate between “Game” overall, and “Hand”, a concept within Game. If they did, maybe they could work out that the “success” of sleeping around, and the failure to find a worthy wife stem from the same problem: the sin of contention. That contention is brought about by an abundance of knowledge of good and evil in the other person.

  14. GKC: I meant only that there’s a certain mindset that sees WC as the highest end, and Christianity just as the means to get there. And if ‘the faith once given’ won’t do the trick, it has to change.

  15. Christianity and Western Civ. did overlap for a time, so much that the meanings became blurred. Now, the similarities are falling away.

    We can still salvage some useful lessons, so long as we maintain a proper Biblical perspective. Pilate, the Pharisees, and many others spoke truthful words, albeit with wildly different degrees of understanding. The ‘sphere touches on some useful facts, but as a (coincidental) witness to the truth. Real life observations naturally align with scriptural warnings as sin multiplies and the world continues its decline. Take it all with a grain of salt.

  16. @Alan

    Real life observations naturally align with scriptural warnings as sin multiplies and the world continues its decline.

    Good comment. I’m going to have to think more about the implications of this…where else do I see it.

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