I Make You Look Good

More plain sex speech ahead.

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My last post should probably have been titled “Women Want Dick”, but as I weighed the merit of various titles I decided that the message “There are no Ugly Truths” was more important. Also, it might draw in those very people who would immediately be turned off by the word “dick”.

When I was a teenager, I had to have a couple surgeries near my dick (but not concerning it) and as I was talking about some trouble with stitches I kept mumbling the word “penis”. The doctor interrupted me and said, “I call it a dick. It’s okay if you do, too.” The word “penis” just sounds diminutive in my ears. Besides: This is how men talk at work. It’s how we talk to our friends around the campfire. It’s how we speak to our dads.

Women, largely, don’t talk this way. I’m fine with that. Discretion and talking around things is often good for women to do. It’s often good for men to do when speaking to women, or near them. Though, more and more I think the straight talk is what is needed. Most of that doesn’t have much to do with sex, or dicks though.

I am not fine with Christian men not speaking plainly. “Bad words” is code for “how men talk”. We’ll know when men have started taking back their churches when they say “dick” to their fellow church men; appropriate circumstances provided. If any of those sort of men read my post yesterday, the safe assumption is that they said to themselves something along the lines of, “Why does he use vulgar terms?” Worse: “This is nothing new. Of course women like sex.”

That’s not what I said. That’s what the culture says. Whenever others do, you should immediately start looking for the underlying message, because they’re trying to reframe the perspective. The most common reframe is towards the idea that women want to be pleasured, just like men do. That’s a a lie, and it’s designed to keep both men and women from liking sex with their spouses. It’s effect is to normalize all sexual behavior as equal; including and especially deviant sexual behavior. The focus on seeking out pleasure rather than accepting it does to sex what the focus of seeking happiness did to marriage: Made it a gay thing.

We can we deduce this is a lie by going back to our principles that different things cannot be equal, and that since men and women’s sex drives and tastes are different, then women are not pleasured the way men; they’re not even primarily interested in their own pleasure.

Yesterday I wrote:

[F]rom the consummation of sex all sorts of things can grow: love, children, civilizations, pleasure…the things that make human life worth living.

How important is a woman’s sexual pleasure to those things? Almost none.

Try contemplating sex without an erection, and then consider that a man has almost no volition over whether he gets an erection or not. What control he does have is probably a mnemonic trick women would not find sexy at all: Thinking about another time or woman. There’s also pills, and mechanical devices; none of which are sexy, and certainly not as sexy as throbbing boner conjured by the touch and smell and sounds of an attractive flesh and blood woman in front of him. The woman’s reaction to sexual desire is secretion that facilitates the man’s entry into the woman. It’s inconspicuous, where the man’s erection is unavoidable. Without that secretion, then sex becomes a painful experience for both, but it’s a secondary concern. Without an erection there just is no sex, period.

A woman’s orgasm is of no importance to conception, but the man’s is invaluable.

A man can rape a woman and receive pleasure, and cause conception, but try to consider how a woman can rape a man with normal sex. It’s almost impossible. Remember: She has to incite a hard-on. If she does: How bad could it have been; except upon reflection? Yes, she might have been an embarrassment if his friends knew he’d slept with a fat girl…later. No, it’s not good for teachers to seduce high school boys, but we have to drum up our sense of indignation for that; you know–really think about it why it’s bad. Why? Because ultimately we know that for sex have to occurred at all, he had to be giving it to her.

Women who describe themselves as “in love” (another topic for another day) hardly care about their own specific stimuli. They generate this “in love” feeling almost totally by pleasing the man, and his response to it. It is from his excitement that the woman gains. Consider that many women admit to routinely faking pleasure. Why? One: Because she can, and it doesn’t matter. Conversely: There’s no faking a boner. Two, because somewhere in her mind is the idea that what’s important is that the man is pleased; even if that means she has to construct moans and writhing because she is aware that he puts emphasis on his ability to please her.

Does a woman want to be sexually pleasured? Absolutely, and a man wants to be that source of pleasure. It seems counter-intuitive, until you lay it out. (rimshot) If such a man just realized that what is most important is giving her dick; they’d both be more pleased. The more he seeks solely or specifically her pleasure, the more likely that both will be dissatisfied. Saying “women like sex” explains very little about what it is about sex that women like–which is dick. They perceive emotional bonding by the amount and frequency that a man wants to provide it. Church-folk don’t say these things for the reasons I enumerated in yesterday’s post. What a shame.

What can we deduce from all this? Men are the gatekeepers to commitment AND sex. Sex originates from the man. Men have so much sex-iness, that we get regularly get erections for women who aren’t even concerned with us; who aren’t doing anything particularly sexy; who are not around. They don’t even have to be real. We can circumvent natural procreation simply by masturbating into a cup; the contents of which can be scooped directly into a vagina, and “VOILA!”: A baby. Fifteen minutes later we can do it again. Women have to go through a difficult and invasive procedure to harvest their eggs. Men have so much sexiness that we can afford to literally give it away and feel no loss.

Pick-up artists know this. They talk about women being the gatekeepers of sex, but their actual prescriptions are to assume that women want what men have. Their assumptions are right. So they should stop saying women are the gatekeepers. That they do has always baffled me, and it causes a lot of other assumptions to just be wrong.

Said another way: Men sexualize everything about women. This is said often, but exclusively in a derogatory way. The beautiful truth is that women literally cannot be sexy without men to declare them sexy by our very thoughts and impulses. Eve wasn’t sexy until Adam popped wood at her debut. Eve liked being sexy–as all women do–and it was the dick that declared it so. Any woman who declares herself sexy is prematurely judging herself. It’s phony. It’s narcissism if she believes it. The woman who wants to know if she is truly sexy has to consult the cock.

You can say this to your wife, too, but you may want to slightly change the tenor because women are skittish, and like guessing games, but do not remove the physicality of the act from your speech: “You want what I got, don’t you?”* Sure, she might laugh. I laugh saying it. That doesn’t make it untrue, and laughing is a pretty good way to fall into bed. If she bristles, that’s good, too. Pretty much any arousal or challenge on her part works in the man’s favor–and therefore hers.

The exception to this is outright contempt, or ridicule. That is unacceptable, and should be returned with disdain, followed closely by shunning. Not for her directly, but for the attitude. “What an ugly thing to come out of your pretty mouth.” Withdraw your attentions and provision immediately. A woman who rejects her husband is sick, and you must starve that evil out. When she screams: “Will you just tell me what you want for dinner?” your reply is: “We have to finish the other conversation first: Tell me that you want me in you.”

You’re not looking for an apology, but repentance, and fealty. It doesn’t even matter if she means it. The internal betrayal a rebellious woman feels uttering those words will blow a hole clean through the ranks of that rebellion, and what she thinks she wants. That’s a good thing, and you can occupy that cleared space.

One caveat to the withdrawal of affections and provisions: Do not leave. Ever. First of all, it’s legally troublesome. More importantly: The doghouse is for the offender; not the offended. If you leave you will communicate that you’ve done something wrong, or shameful.

If you approach the problem of having sex with your wife from the point of view that you have to extract sex from behind her gates, then you’ve already lost. There is no latent boner hidden in her, so stop trying to get it up. You have the sex, and she has to come to you to get it. You will lead. She will follow.

*“…what I got hanging…”, if you’re slightly bolder.

47 thoughts on “I Make You Look Good

  1. If you approach the problem of having sex with your wife from the point of view that you have to extract sex from behind her gates, then you’ve already lost.

    I don’t know if you’ll get many (if any) men to internalize this.

  2. Took years to figure out even what I myself was saying on the subject and putting it into practice (if that phrase isn’t misleading in context)

    Yesterday we had some issue with the IRS that was blocking a decision to book our summer trip to Disney. I resolved the issue then texted something like (its kinda funny):

    “Book it biatcch, and replace the granny panties today”

    Which, in my wife’s precious innocence got me a reply, she thought biatcch meant beach as written, which was a portion of the intended vacation.

    She replies?

    “Only Biatcch?

    I was lost, not knowing she meant beach (the vacation has 2 3 day parts, beach and Disney)

    So, I dutifully wrote: “Hot Biatcch?”, thinking I’m flirting, while she thinks I’m stating something about weather

    She answers: “dork”

    Me: “Or, go commando”

    Her :she sent the little angry android face.

    It went on from there, us talking past each other, but only later on the phone did we decode the misunderstanding and both gut laughed for five minutes.

    This times are THE times my wife and I are the closest. And, later after we went jogging, the closeness was revealed in private…so, anyway, my anecdote du jour

  3. @Elspeth

    “I don’t know if you’ll get many (if any) men to internalize this.”

    It goes back to that conversation Bike Bubba and I (and others) were having on TC about “proving” manhood, womanhood, etc. They will have to prove it to themselves; even if their first attempts are clumsy–or even later attempts. The idea that men one day just show up as manly is not true. There are no “naturals”; only early adopters.

  4. My first comment in the Manosphere (that’s what I’m calling it). This is not what my first comment was going to be, but I’m trying to internalize what I’ve been reading for six+ months, only I can’t synthesize it yet.

    I’m living the sentence about “internal betrayal”, realizing that (20-year long story) she has always harbored rebellion and I have always been afraid to address it, thinking “she has the innate sense of what’s right/wrong in the relationship etc. etc. churchianity stuff etc.

    So she agreed after a long hiatus to sex again but refuses to allow herself pleasure or barely to acknowledge what’s going on. So tonight I say, “Tell me you want me in you.”

    [Long pause (translation: wtf!?)]

    “I…want you…in me???” Killed what little buzz there was to start with. She said it, but now what?

  5. @Caspar

    You stud! Good for you! And good for her for saying it!

    1) Ok, you two have established 20 years of weird sexual relations. I mean weird in the sense that it isn’t a regular thing, and there’s a aspect of fear and there’s been denial. This isn’t a spell you break with an incantation.

    2) Right now, you’re in the hardest part; just grabbing your nutsack and going for it. There is a very bright side to this: Things will never be the same. You’ve been in a 20 year rut, and you just broke it. You can know this because it was weird after you did it. Success is going to feel weird after a streak of failure, right? So, keep in mind: Having sex right this second is not the goal. Right now you’re establishing enthusiasm; you’re lighting a fire. Your marriage camp is set, but without fire you’re going to be very cold. Enthusiasm is the flame that you have to

    3) Do not withhold your pleasure at her willingness. Even with no sex, you’ve got something–you are together with her in a small way you were not before. Plenty of men never hear that, or very rarely. That part with the long pause was your time to strike. That was when you should have laid a big old kiss on her, and then go from there. Since the awkwardness has already happened: Just let it go. Joy is the goal; not a textbook sexual encounter. Don’t think about what didn’t happen, but think about what you have accomplished. And seriously: Thank God for tonight. Ask Him to guide you in all things, but especially in this. Think about what you will do next time, and what you want to happen next time.

    4) Do something different with her tomorrow. Go for a walk if you don’t; go get a milkshake; whatever. Be enthusiastic about it, and don’t ask. Shepherds don’t ask sheep: They round them up, and they take them to new pastures. You have every reason to expect her to respond well, based on tonight; though don’t be surprised if it takes some time for your enthusiasm to catch fire in her. That’s ok. You have to get the tinder going before you can start burning your log. You just refuse to quit being enthusiastic because without that fire you’re going to freeze to death…as you know.

    So, how do you let go of the awkward situation, and also not withhold your pleasure? Go ahead and give her that kiss, and tell you that you loved to hear her say that she wanted you in her, but let go of the expectation of sex. If things happen, and she wakes you up with a sleepy purr, then go for it, but otherwise just be satisfied with this victory.

    DO NOT THANK HER. You thank God, but you appreciate your wife. Wives don’t want thanks, and they don’t want recognition. They want your interest and your desire. That’s a big difference. This isn’t a transaction. You’re not trading things. It’s sex; which is love, and she’s following you.

    You’re a man. You don’t have to work on dominance. Dominance is your birthright, and will come naturally. What women want is to be excited about the prospect of her man in her, and that’s where enthusiasm for wanting to give her what God has said only you are allowed to do for her: Delight in inserting yourself into her body and life.

    I haven’t finished the posts yet, but next up I’m talking about the different ways men and women love, and it follows the same pattern as sex. They have totally different but thoroughly enmeshed goals, methods of arousal, etc. You will lead. She will follow. She wants to respect you. She will respect enthusiasm. Everyone does.

  6. Reblogged this on Passionate Christian Marriage and commented:
    I love when men behave like men, there is something amazingly attractive about not being able to predict their behavior, not being able to control them. I could never have written a post like this, never. There’s a missing piece and only men can fill it, if this is the first step to having men re-take control of the churches, then I’m all for it.
    “Who said anything about safe? ‘Course he isn’t safe. But he’s good. He’s the King, I tell you.”
    ― C.S. Lewis, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe

  7. Pingback: Lightning Round – 2013/05/12 | Free Northerner

  8. Women want dick, in all the literal and metaphorical ways. They want the dicks of civilization to build something strong for them and protect them as much as they want their husband to love them and give them so much that they can’t walk without a soreness to remember how much he gave her the night before. Yohami’s been preaching this for ages, but this is the first time I’ve seen a Christian blogger take it up, and I like it.

    Men have a dick. It’s our job to be swinging it around. Swing it without a care for who or what is in the way. Let the woman chase after it, rub against it, and then give it to her.

  9. Pingback: Swing That Dick « stagedreality

  10. @Leap

    I liked Yohami’s style from the first I saw of it, and this has a lot to do with it.

    Just to be clear:

    “Men have a dick. It’s our job to be swinging it around.”

    Yes.

    “Swing it without a care for who or what is in the way.”

    No. There is a time and a place for everything. Now, if you’re a man you’re always a man, and so you’ll always have a need to swing that dick. However; part of being a man is finding when, where, and how to swing it. This is why “irrational self-confidence” is destructive: It cannot tell you not to swing your dick into a meat-grinder. A rational exuberance would tell you to walk away from the meat-grinder and swing somewhere else. I think you understand that at least to a certain extent with your advice to walk away from those who do not appreciate your dick, but there is the real possibility of being destroyed, too. So: Don’t stop swinging it, and if you have to never for long, yet be wise enough to know when to move on.

    It’s the difference between being a trained swordsman, and a raving peasant.

  11. The dick always wants to be swung around…it takes balls to control the thing. If you notice…the balls look like a brain.

    Men need the balls to make a woman want the dick.

  12. I was unclear in my intentional meaning. A man’s goals will be best achieved by him being a man and owning his masculinity. In the pursuit of those goals, there will be many times where the way to overcome the impairments that others will put in your way is to simply be masculine and own your dick. This can mean overpowerment (of one form or another), reframing, deflection, etc. But at no point should you become effeminate nor submissive – the closest you should get is a facade of such to later enable one of the above to work.

    I think we’re going for the same thing, and simply got lost in the worlds of words.

  13. Hi Cane,
    I’m a 20-something woman, and I love your posts. This one especially. I wanted to ask you how do I attract a man like you or one that fits the mold of manliness that you portrait? I find it extremely difficult to find nice men with good values that aren’t extremely beta. I’ll date them, but eventually lose respect for them because they don’t put me in my place when I act up. I don’t purposefully try to act up, it just becomes more of a habit when there are no consequences (I would never shame a man though). I’m working on becoming a better more feminine woman so that I can make my future husband proud. I’m already very submissive and obedient in my nature, but I’m not sure how to convey that to attract the sort of man that is dominant and yet benevolent. I realize this is a pretty teenage girl sounding question, but I’ve been talking with my catholic male friends and they told me they thought I should go through with it and contact you. What do you suggest I do? Hope to hear from you soon.

  14. @ ModestLeopard

    [I’m not Cane, so I can’t speak for him, but I can give you my thoughts on the subject.]

    I think your problem ML is not so much attracting the kind of man you are looking for, but in finding him. Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that you are looking for a perfect trifecta in a man, specifically that he is:
    1) Devout
    2) Has an agreeable personality
    3)Masculine

    Such men are extraordinarily rare these days. Very, very few are raised that way from birth. Most are converts of some sort or another. Either they were masculine and not religious and converted later in life, or (even less commonly) they were religious and later in life became more masculine. This is where you real challenge lies: find men like this. Sadly, there is only so much advice to give here.

    I mention this because I think you are focusing too much on efforts to attract such a man. Understand that he is attracted to the same thing all other men are attracted to: beauty. What you want is to make him desire you, and you can do this through becoming more feminine. Of course, this will also pull in other men as well, because as a general rule nearly all men desire more feminine women. But at this point, assuming you do find such a man, you can accept his advances and reject those of “beta” men.

  15. @ML

    My first thought is: I need to re-examine my stance against polygyny.

    I asked Mrs. Caldo your question, and she texted back: “Don’t try to get his attention like most other women. Be modestly dressed but fashionable. Intelligent. etc. Listen to him, but don’t be silly in comments. Truly laugh at his jokes.”

    There is little better than causing a woman to truly guffaw. My belief is that it’s the same basic ability to get a woman to surrender her body and senses to other performances. The rest of what she said is true, but are less about how to hook someone like me, and more about how not to get yourself removed from the list of candidates.

    I find it extremely difficult to find nice men with good values that aren’t extremely beta. I’ll date them, but eventually lose respect for them because they don’t put me in my place when I act up. I don’t purposefully try to act up, it just becomes more of a habit when there are no consequences (I would never shame a man though).

    Stop doing that.

    But if/when you do, and he does not respond assertively, then bounce. Here’s why: You found him attractive enough to date him. So will some other woman. I’ve never known a guy like that who wasn’t susceptible to even the mere possibility of a whiff of strange tail…Not that it will go well for him. Most times it will go nowhere because he’s not assertive. Yes: “times”; as in multiple. We’re assuming he’s generally attractive. There are plenty of women out there who are emotionally and physically aroused by the thought of taking another woman’s husband as it demonstrates his value, and he’s the marrying-type.

    Meanwhile, you’ll get into a habit of acting up, but never being satisfied. Then some guy at work will make you really laugh.

  16. Thank you Cane and @donalgraeme. You both mentioned becoming more feminine, but what exactly do you mean by that? That word can be interpreted in many different ways. How would you suggest I become more feminine to be more desirable?
    Oh and @Cane you believe that a man that does not act assertively will be more susceptible to the possibility of other women, why is that?
    Thanks again!

  17. Mrs. Caldo gives good advice, ML. You should listen to her. I was thinking about this topic a bit since the topic seems to be centered around feminine beauty and I have always joked that I have had to make up in charm what I lacked in beauty.

    This tendency of mine was not without its pitfalls and problems, even though it worked. Right up until… well you know, but by then he had made his choice and I was in for good. I still have to curb it since I picked up the habit as a young girl. Not good at all.

    Here’s my point, though. It’s interesting to note that in Proverbs the witer puts them in this order: Charm is decpetive, and beauty is fleeting… Personality will get you where your outward appearance leaves off.

    From what I have witnessed, women put far too much energy into what they cannot change (You can only get so thin and your face is whatever God gave you), while putting no eefort into being someone worth talking to, and having zero skills at anything besides lying on their backs.

  18. @ML

    You both mentioned becoming more feminine, but what exactly do you mean by that? That word can be interpreted in many different ways. How would you suggest I become more feminine to be more desirable?

    Watch a woman you know and admire in real life, who has a husband and relationship you respect. Do what she does, and get her advice in private. Women will say fundamentally different things in private, and that’s what you want. Mrs. Caldo’s advice is not the same as she did. (Less Mary and Martha; more Ruth and Tamar. That’s a subject for another post.)

    @Cane you believe that a man that does not act assertively will be more susceptible to the possibility of other women, why is that?

    Because passive men do not try-and-fail, and try-again-and-succeed, so they do not develop perseverance. Perseverance is necessary for a man to withstand the the temptations of the hordes of feral women, and their eager mouths.

    A passive man believes he “got lucky” and must take advantage of any woman’s offering; he believes “It must be true love!”, and he’s prone to being an emotional slut.

  19. I’ll reinforce Cane’s answer here. The fact is, while listening here is all fine and good, we’re not going to give you any advise that is perfectly useful because we don’t know you and you could be a liar.

    Go find a 40+ year old woman who has lived with a man who is her husband for 20+ years. Hang out with her. If she is known for “being her own woman” run for the hills. If she is known for being the ultimate Grandmother-in-Waiting watch what she does. Be as much like her as possible. She should:
    1.) Dress like a woman even though she’s older. There is a reason we make fun of women in pantsuits.
    2.) She should be modest.
    3.) She should love her husband and that love of her husband should be clear to everyone. There’s an older woman I deeply respect who on paper looks bad (former red diaper baby, campus activist, etc.) but she fell in deep love with a solid guy and practically worships the ground he walks on (and denies it like a silly person). I’d recommend her to anyone.
    3b.) Men will talk about her as a Grandmother-in-Waiting. See: Proverbs 31:31 as the gate was the place the men folk hung out.
    4.) Realize you can’t make men “man up”…that’s our job.
    5.) Have _her husband and her_ help you find someone. This one is important because you should assume that you are an idiot when it comes to such things. That problem is unfortunately pan-sexual. Also do not expect magic here.

  20. @ ML

    You both mentioned becoming more feminine, but what exactly do you mean by that? That word can be interpreted in many different ways. How would you suggest I become more feminine to be more desirable?

    The others gave some good advice, although it presumes that you know an older woman who can give that kind of feminine advice. Depending on where you live, that might not be the case. Even if it isn’t, there are a couple of blogs that I would recommend to help you with this:

    http://girlsbeinggirls.wordpress.com/

    and

    http://embraceyourfeminity.wordpress.com/

    Both will be a good start for ideas of feminine behavior. And also good places to ask questions.

  21. Donal, so I went to “girls” and the dating stuff…there was an article on staying a virgin…I don’t think I’m cool with the not shaving your legs. I say this because I knew a very nice young girl who had a very good father who went totally overboard on not “tarting up”. She was the secret laughing stock of the congregation because she didn’t look feminine at all and had not the faintest clue what was wrong. Granny panties…I get that…you don’t need sexy underwear if you are single. But not shaving? That is, culturally correct norms feminine hygiene? That bugs me.

    She was _very_ fortunately she married a guy that was a friend of mine and went through a mind blowing transformation (shaving, hair done, light makeup, a dress that fit her, and a loss of twenty pounds). They married while I was away and I didn’t even recognize her in the pictures*.

    Not being aware of popular culture and social norms is almost as bad as being subject to it.

    * It probably helped that he was a natural at dead pan honesty, “why are you wearing that?” I imagine was a frequent question in the first few months.

  22. I totally missed that the first time around GK. Yeah, that is something a woman shouldn’t necessarily abstain from. Depends a lot on body type/ethnicity, etc. I think the perspective that the authoress had was that if you are wearing long dresses and skirts and such, then it doesn’t matter if your legs are shaved are not, as it won’t show.

  23. @DG

    Young women [1] are not the best sources of information. I’ll just leave it at that.

    @ML

    Online: I like Elspeth and Saint Velvet [1].

    I still think a flesh and blood mentor is best.

    [1} Ha!

  24. Thanks, Cane.

    I’d add Lori Alexander and Hearthrose to the list of long time married Christian women whose writings are helpful.

    As for Sis’ article on keeping your virginity, I had mixed feelings. On the one, she managed to do what so many women do not. On the other, a lot of that would be unnecessary if Christians weren’t plugged into the secular dating culture.

    Women (married or not) should shave their legs IMO. However, her position is not unheard of. I have read on more than one occasion where modesty zealots are pretty adamant that women should not shave their legs.

  25. And modesty zealots are wrong like many other zealots. There’s no point in making her a troll. Modesty means she should be concerned:
    1.) First with what is her moral deportment
    2.) Not engaging in attractive behavior designed for sin (that is, your average tramp stamp says “do me now!”)

    It does not mean making what God made ugly and not engaging in basic hygiene. It is like telling a forty something year old guy not to trim his nose hair. Do, please, trim your nose hair.

  26. And modesty zealots are wrong like many other zealots.

    Who is who, though?

    On the other, a lot of that would be unnecessary if Christians weren’t plugged into the secular dating culture.

    It seems to me that the secular dating culture came from the practices of Christians; culturally anyways.

    I’m not arguing with either one of you (the Caldo girls shave their legs). The culture is just really, really bad right now. I’ve been brewing a post for awhile now on modesty (especially as it applies to clothes, makeup, etc), but I don’t pull the trigger on it because it will get a lot of backlash based on what I’ve read of other Christians.

    Now: Backlash I like, but not having great answers does not thrill me.

  27. I just meant for the few days before the date, not forever. I was a cheerleader/sorority girl. Of course I endorse leg shaving. It just helps to be a little self-conscious if you know you are going to be tempted.

  28. LOL, Sis.

    Like I said, you managed to do what I did not, so I dare not knock you, sister. But thanks for the clarification.

    As for modesty standards, I am quite interested in your post Cane, even as you know where I stand. I wear what my husband likes. In the context of the larger culture and in a world where many women my age (42) are trying to look 20 years younger, I am modest enough. From the persepctive of the modesty zealots, my dress would be considered problematic.

    Submit yourself to your own husbands I say. I’m sure you agree.

  29. Ah….that makes a bit more sense. I don’t know if I agree with it, but I at least understand it now.

  30. I would also be interested in that post. For the moment the subject intrigues me on an intellectual/theological level, but I do hope to marry (and sooner rather than later). In which case I would need to consider my wife’s attire, and that of any daughters we have.

  31. Cane,
    You should really do the modest post, whether it is controversial or not. I’d like to hear your ideas. That might help me on my journey to become more modest and feminine.

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  33. Even though I am ultimately going to follow the lead of my own husband, I want you to run your post Cane because I think there are a lot of people who are confused and fretful on the subject. I trust your judgement and intent. Even if I don’t fully agree with you on some of the details, I know you’re not going to ever advise a wife to presume she is more pious and wise than her believing husband or that her husband preferences are inherently sinful as we encountered here:

    http://traditionalchristianity.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/on-feminine-beauty-and-godliness/

  34. @Elspeth

    I know you’re not going to ever advise a wife to presume she is more pious and wise than her believing husband or that her husband preferences are inherently sinful

    Oh really? Sarah did right to obey Abraham, but Abraham was wicked, selfish, and foolish to hand her over to two different men on two different occasions.

  35. I don’t know if that is fair to either Abraham or Sarah. They were refugees in a foreign land and were, from our understanding of Abraham, fairly ignorant of God. They did what He asked but in many ways Abraham is a reawakening of a nearly dead proto-Church. He seems to have been a willing follower of a “crazy ol’ dad” who not everyone was keen on and who had a great deal of the story wrong himself.

  36. @GKC

    I don’t know if that is fair to either Abraham or Sarah.

    Are you really–really–going to make the argument that Pharaoh had some secret matrimonial knowledge that Abram did not?

    10 Now there was a famine in the land. So Abram went down to Egypt to sojourn there, for the famine was severe in the land. 11 When he was about to enter Egypt, he said to Sarai his wife, “I know that you are a woman beautiful in appearance, 12 and when the Egyptians see you, they will say, ‘This is his wife.’ Then they will kill me, but they will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, that it may go well with me because of you, and that my life may be spared for your sake.” 14 When Abram entered Egypt, the Egyptians saw that the woman was very beautiful. 15 And when the princes of Pharaoh saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh. And the woman was taken into Pharaoh’s house. 16 And for her sake he dealt well with Abram; and he had sheep, oxen, male donkeys, male servants, female servants, female donkeys, and camels.

    17 But the Lord afflicted Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai, Abram’s wife. 18 So Pharaoh called Abram and said, “What is this you have done to me? Why did you not tell me that she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, ‘She is my sister,’ so that I took her for my wife? Now then, here is your wife; take her, and go.” 20 And Pharaoh gave men orders concerning him, and they sent him away with his wife and all that he had.

    Abraham whored his wife out for his own safety and comfort; after God had told him DIRECTLY that He would make a nation from Abram and Sarai. Think about how long it takes for a plague to be recognized; how long it takes to negotiate, wrangle, and transfer many animals from one person to another.

    Sorry, GKC: Abraham was very foolish, and he knew what he was doing.

  37. I am not arguing that Abraham wasn’t an ass in this instance. But I seem to hear you implying that Sarah was complicit which I don’t believe we have evidence for. Sarah went with Pharaoh, but we don’t have evidence that she lied.

  38. Pingback: Dark Brightness | A scrapbook of quotes.

  39. First off hello Cane, I love this blog.

    My first comment in the sphere.
    I’m surprised this hasn’t been directly mentioned in reply to ML, but the single most effective thing you can do to attract any guy is not be fat. I tell you, as a low 20s male, that if you have long natural hair and an above average (not hard to achieve) body, you are ahead of about 85% of the other girls.

    How to become more feminine? Watch all the girls on reality TV, the “sluts” you know who pull all the Alpha guys – and do the opposite of what they say and do.

  40. Pingback: The Shadows Cast by Goddess Idols | Things that We have Heard and Known

  41. Pingback: …the Best Kind of Correct « Calculated Bravery

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