Harriett Johnson’s Lament

In a post linked to me, Free Northerner asks:

Where is the practical Christian advice that will help me find a wife? Where can I find advice so the good Christian girl’s description of me to her friends isn’t “ew”?

He then goes on to say:

Without that, all the rest of this debate over game is just noise and thunder signifying nothing. Awkward Christian men will go the degenerate dirt bags, because our choices are either try to pick the occasional nugget of truth from the hedonists and hope we don’t become corrupted by them or live the rest of our lives in grinding loneliness and sexual frustration.

If you don’t like game, give us an alternative.

Or what? The nigger gets it?

What do you have to do with me? If you want my help, then you should beseech my help. It won’t encourage me to help if you threaten to take yourself hostage. It is a father’s job to teach manliness. I’m not your father. I don’t owe you patrimony.

Having said that: It’s outrageously stupid to vomit out that I haven’t provided any advice on how to portray manliness, how to handle women, or how to attract women. I have given more patrimony than I owed already! There are volumes here and more volumes in the comments of others blogs. What I haven’t provided you with is the trappings of a system.

That’s what you want: a system. Why? Because you’re a nerd who likes and responds to systems and lists. While all sorts of good engineering is a result of good systems, living life is not. Life isn’t a system. Women aren’t a system. Marriage isn’t a system. Being a man, living a good life, and being married to a good wife, then, isn’t about following a system. It’s about living artfully. That’s why nominal Christians who “find” their answers in the Men’s Sphere bleat and repeat: “But, but, but…the Bible doesn’t teach how to attract and handle women!” Yes it does, but you can’t recognize it because you’re deliberately ignoring art while you delve for a system.

What I’ve written here is an artistic endeavor; both in what I advise, and how I advised it. A while back, I wrote this comment on Leap’s blog:

There was once a blog with a great tagline: “treating matters of great concern lightly”. Marriage is very serious, and as a man you’ll find that the seriousness inclines you to want to be “earnest” and “sincere” about everything.

I don’t know if you ever played sports, or sculpted, or painted, but there is a way that you are both deft (light) and intentional (follow-through) with your movements. Whether you’re trying to move the ball where you want it to go, or to cast the right shadow on the face…

I’m not sure if what I mean is coming through, but here’s another art example.

The best way to draw a circle is to step back almost arm’s length from the canvas, hold the pencil in your whole hand (not like you hold it for writing) firmly, but not tight. Then imagine a circle. Put the tip of the pencil on the canvas, and then draw the circle using your whole arm.

Intentional, and using the whole body, but with a light touch. You’re looking for a mate, but you are not going demand that she mate or bounce, or worry about whether the circle in your mind is perfect.

Over and again you’ll see this is my prescriptions: Step back, take a good look, see what the masters have done, see what the tools look like, and really see the canvas; which is the terrain. Then clear your mind except for what you want, put yourself out there and perform; lightly but with intention. Pitching is like this. Shooting hoops is like this. Sculpting is like this. Reading the Bible is like this. There is no list to drawing a circle except the very rudimentary one I’ve provided here. These are all arts, and arts can’t be codified into systems.[1]

Alternatively, you could pretend to take yourself hostage from yourself and then quaver, “Isn’t anyone going to help this poor man?”

[1] Another of the many confusions surrounding Game. It seems like–and is sold as–a system, but it can’t actually be learned except by doing. Those things are called arts.

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41 thoughts on “Harriett Johnson’s Lament

  1. Thank you for this. As someone who is both devout and fresh to “game” (about 6 months) I have been deeply *puzzled* by some of the things I read. Like
    “…the core of game is simply to demystify women and level the playing field”
    And
    “Just be virtuous” as a dismissal.
    Or that the Christian men interested in emulating “game” are very impressed that someone who aggressively approached 1,000 in a year had a ‘conversion rate’ of under 3%.
    But now I get it.
    No wonder that ludicrous ‘alpha/beta/etc.’ classifications go unquestioned, or the statement that ‘sluts are high value’ goes unchallenged. Or someone who repeats as a mantra ‘no one else but those teaching “game” is teaching masculinity’ is seen as a deep thinker.
    Thanks for the clarity

  2. “see what the masters have done, see what the tools look like, and really see the canvas; which is the terrain. Then clear your mind except for what you want, put yourself out there and perform; lightly but with intention.”

    That is not actionable advice. It is meaningless arm-waving. “Go watch somebody who’s good at it”.

    Yes, the smart ones go watch somebody like Rossy, who will tell them how to do it. You offer nothing. They ask for bread, and you give them hot air. Next time, they will ask somebody who cares more about helping them than defending his ego at their expense.

    You claim it’s all in the Bible, but that nobody but you can see it, you refuse to give hints, and you blame them for not knowing the secret already.

    Of course, nobody learns to shoot hoops or paint that way. Every great musician has a teacher, often a lifelong mentor. Nobody is expected to reinvent those arts from scratch, or derive them from looking at the masters’ results.

    Good teachers of any art are generous with advice and insight, and they don’t feel threatened by other teachers. You contemptously refuse to offer any help at all, and instead cattily tear down teachers who *are* willing to teach.

    You know nothing. You pretend to know, and you make a big fake secret of it, like every charlatan in history. But you know nothing.

  3. Steve Baker wrote:
    That is not actionable advice. It is meaningless arm-waving.

    See, Cane: many cannot be taught, do not want to be taught. The Dwarves are for the Dwarves. They want a father, and like the girl raised with no father (or a dysfunctional father) they will turn to the bad boy and receive his ‘medicine’ into their person no matter what you, as an adult-not-their-father, try to tell them.

  4. Steven, I think he laid out his terms and conditions clearly enough. If you want someone to teach you, then treat him with respect. If you want to be a student, act like one. Not like a spoiled child demanding a toy from a stranger.

    Time is money. I sympathise with the plaint of the original poster:

    QUOTE Where is the practical Christian advice that will help me find a wife? Where can I find advice so the good Christian girl’s description of me to her friends isn’t “ew”? ENDQUOTE

    I’d love the answer to this myself, without becoming a Roissyite slut-banger.

    Cane Caldo, you see the problem clearly. It sounds like you have the solution, but it is scattered across a lot of comments and blog posts. I appreciate it would probably take you a few hours (or more) to dig through the posts and comments and link all the most relevant ones.

    If at some point you do this, I’ll be grateful. If I had $$, I’d offer you some, not for your knowledge, but in gratitude for the time you are spending on educating us.

    Vox Day has had a lot of good posts at Alpha Game plan.

    You learn a martial art by “doing”. But a martial art has exercises and criteria by which you can “exercise” and measure your “improvement”. So… a martial art also has a system. All successful artists figure out a system for figuring out where they are, and getting where they want to go. The ways and means to get there are infinite and varied; but the system helps get you there.

  5. Probably one of the biggest questions is: how to “improve” with women without banging sluts. How to identify women that can be MADE into good mates. Until you actually sleep with the woman, you don’t know if she’s a frigid cock-tease, or with be an enthusiastic bed-partner as well as “Christian wife”. There are red flags of course, but most men don’t know them.

    DavidX, the opposite of a Christian if ever there was one, teaches that women aren’t good by nature, you have to MAKE them good.

    I met a slut a year ago. She was a good Christian girl, slender, beautiful, Lutheran. Engaged to a “good” guy, handsome, in shape, etc. But she “fell” for the bad boy at the gym who had impregnated several other women. Her friends warned her against him; now she’s babysitting him, a marijuana seller living off his disability pension. Yep, I’ve seen a lot of “Christian” girls leave church to take up with the exciting bad boys.

  6. MycroftJones:
    Until you actually sleep with the woman, you don’t know if she’s a frigid cock-tease, or with be an enthusiastic bed-partner as well as “Christian wife”.

    Suck it up, buttercup. If what you are after is Christian marriage then the fulfillment of sexual fantasies is low on your priority list. You aren’t getting into it for self gratification.

  7. Zippycup,
    1Corinthians 7:8-9 “8But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.”

    The only reason Paul suggests marriage is for sex.

  8. ar10308:
    False dichotomy. If she is a woman capable of marriage at all, she is capable of sex. If you can’t know whether she is a good enough “enthusiastic bed partner” without fornicating with her ahead of time there is a problem with your pre-marital evaluation process, and I’m sure St Paul appreciates you invoking him as justification for your problem.

  9. @Steve Baker

    That is not actionable advice.

    Duh. I just said that art advice is mostly not actionable advice, e.g., not a a system.

    They ask for bread, and you give them hot air.

    You have it exactly backwards. They asked for hot air, and I gave them bread. This is provided, of course, that one accepts that there is a Bread of Life.

    You claim it’s all in the Bible

    Yes; everything you need to know to live life well is in the Bible. What is not there explicitly, it outlines and shadows by rebuking it. Furthermore, what it recommends is walking with someone; not reading about them.

    but that nobody but you can see it

    We only have the Bible today, now, because many others besides and long before me could see that “it’s all there”, and then they all walked together to pass it on, and help each other be artful.

    you blame them for not knowing the secret already.

    No. I blame them for demanding that I give them my coat when I already have, yet they say I did not. Me saying they are ungrateful isn’t even punishment. It’s just acknowledgement of our relationship.

    Of course, nobody learns to shoot hoops or paint that way. Every great musician has a teacher, often a lifelong mentor. Nobody is expected to reinvent those arts from scratch, or derive them from looking at the masters’ results.

    Yes, exactly. Those who want to be artists don’t read blogs for the answers, but walk with somebody who knows the way. Strangely enough: This “walking” business is all over the Bible; walk with God, walk with Jesus, walk with friends, walk with the poor and downtrodden… You’d think it was trying to teach us something, but that to be taught, we’d have to do something; not something systematic, but something revelatory.

    Good teachers of any art are generous with advice and insight

    How many words are on this blog?

    and they don’t feel threatened by other teachers.

    Threatened by what? A horde of whiny Betas? A handful of (largely fake) PUAs? I’m not the one pretending to take himself hostage and then complaining about it.

    You contemptously refuse to offer any help at all, and instead cattily tear down teachers who *are* willing to teach.

    This makes me doubt you’ve ever read my blog.

    You know nothing. You pretend to know, and you make a big fake secret of it, like every charlatan in history. But you know nothing.

    The jig’s up, I guess. You got me. All the choice I have left is to keep being satisfied by drawing some big ol’ circles, and invite you to look on. In your particular case, I think it would help you to do so more quietly, though.

  10. Zippy,
    The fundamental purpose of marriage is sex and being fruitful. That is why two will become “one flesh”.
    This is what you said:
    “If what you are after is Christian marriage then the fulfillment of sexual fantasies is low on your priority list.”

    That has nothing to do with having sex before marriage or not.

  11. ar10308:
    You do realize that I was responding to a specific statement by another commenter – the one I quoted, about the putative need to fornicate before marriage in order to find out if she is enthusiastic enough in bed – right?

    Because it isn’t at all obvious that you are aware of that, based on the content of your comments.

  12. Another home-run! Cane says,”Then clear your mind except for what you want”
    I don’t think most men know what they want, or they are just dishonest. Do you just want girls to fuck, and thus pursue ‘game’? Do you want a woman who will live with you in peace and help you build a godly family? Do you have a fantasy girl in your mind, just like women have their fantasy man? If you are a man who will follow God and desire(want) what God wants, then Cane has shown you exactly how to get on the road that leads there.

  13. I don’t know. I find myself in the odd position of a guy who gets it, but only as of recently. What distinction between “Read your Bible better,” and “The right girl will come along?” The two are generally uttered by the same people (although not on the same topic).

    When you undertake to teach, this is the response you’re signing up for without further elucidation. I’m glad you’ve done what you’ve done, but count the cost.

  14. Caldo, show me where the Bible says that when your woman gets emotional and crazy, you must resist the temptation to try to calm her down and make her feel better. Just for one example.

    My father may have learned that from his father. He never told me, he told me the exact opposite. I learned it from reading Roissy. You’re telling me it’s bad to learn it from Roissy, because anybody who looks can find it somewhere in the Bible, along with the fact that it’s critically important to leading a family. So where is it? Chapter and verse, please. Seriously. It’s indispensible. Can’t lead a woman without it. How would you have a young man with a useless or absent father learn that? Be concrete.

    Or are you telling me that it’s only visible to men who know it already, and those who don’t figure it out first and THEN locate it in the Bible… are fools and God doesn’t want them to lead families?

    No, that’s wrong. All men deserve a fair chance to learn this stuff. Show me where Jesus said they didn’t. Show me where He said “the least of you can go pound sand, because I’m awesome”.

    What if I want to rebuild my clutch? “That’s in the BIBLE, son — just watch me admire my masterful self, and it’ll all be clear, but don’t you date look at that sinful Chilton manual!”

    Sorry, no. Nobody who doesn’t understand women can learn much about it from the Bible. Nobody needs to pick up sluts in bars, but ALL men need to lead effectively at home. They need some basic fundamental priciples to get started. Like I took a semester of intro music theory, and it changed my guitar playing forever. I still had a lot of work to do, but I wasn’t stumbling around in the dark any more.

    You want to deny them that. Well, marriage is just a little more important than my Telecaster. In case you didn’t know.

    @Bobbye,

    If you want a lifelong faithful monogamous Godly marriage, you need to learn how to lead a woman. Reading the Bible won’t help. Women are weak and emotional. If you don’t bring the strength in a way they respond to, there is chaos. When you say Caldo is showing us how to get on the road that leads there, how do you know? How long have you been married? Has your wife remained happy and loving for more than a year or two? How thoroughly have you tested his method?

  15. @MycroftJones,

    I’m not asking Cane to teach me. I learned already. I’m the guy showing him where he’s got it wrong.

    I’m not the student. I’m the grown man who walked in, saw a teacher saying untrue things to students — things which I know from years of bitter experience to be untrue — and tried to talk him into telling the truth.

  16. It’s strange, that while not being much of proponent of “game” myself, I find myself defending it recently…

    First of all, I think that statement “all is written in Bible” – is stupid – if it really was there wouldn’t be so many contradicting interpretations on varying stuff, not mentioning that we wouldn’t even need Holy Spirit. And saying that there isn’t much on attracting opposite sex in Bible is surely fair game, given the fact there is no more tradition of arranged marriages…
    That said, saying that Bible got passed on because of all these people believing “it’s all there” – I guess all apologists just pointlessly wasted their time then?

    God is in Bible very straightforward about important things(there are even lists for “nerds who like it”), but you are turning Bible study into some kind of divine/esoteric art, where only chosen ones can understand it right way (why didn’t you just quote some relevant parts otherwise?)

    That’s related to my other point – “system vs art” is a false dichotomy – there is theory and system behind every art and on the other hand almost nothing can be learned (well) without actually doing it (by your definition even programming is an art – you can read many books on it, but you won’t become programmer without serious practice).

    That said, you may have already written great posts with just as specific advice on how to handle women properly as is your advice on drawing circle properly and I wouldn’t know since I started to read you less than 2 months ago, but for people who aren’t following you for a long time your answer sounded just like “There is no system, you gotta feel it, use the force, Luke”. (or you can blame my nerdiness, I guess)

    @Zippy:
    you were the first one to answer out of context – see his Probably one of the biggest questions is: how to “improve” with women without banging sluts. – when you read whole paragraph, he’s criticizing lack of specific advice on question that Christians often ignore.
    You can be proud of your answer though, it was truly a masterpiece (and because great things are to be imitated, here is my take on it:)
    “Cupcake (yeah, humiliating opponent is great way to start every argument), sex shouldn’t be even on your mind when considering marriage”

  17. Also, actionable advice is not a system. The major triads are not an algorithm for generating compositions.

    “She won’t mind a bit if you calmly, confidently express opinions she disagrees with, but she’ll despise you if she thinks you’re currying favor”. Not a system. Actionable advice that all men need. Good on any girl but a deep-dyed radical feminist — and you don’t want one of those anyway.

    Is that in Romans or Ephesians? Chapter and verse?

  18. Cane,

    I am not taking myself hostage. Despite my use of the first-person singular pronoun for demonstrative purposes, I, personally, am not demanding anything more than what already is.

    I have read Roissy, on and off for five years or so. I have read numerous other game blogs in the last couple years. I probably have all the intellectual advice I can use.

    My lament is not for myself now. My lament is for the me as of 3 years ago and for all those young Christian men who are facing the same dilemma.

    As a lonely young man, I went looking for advice, the only practical I found in the culture at large was the hedonists. As a young man desperate in loneliness, the call of the fires of hedonism was strong. I was at times sorely tempted, with the pleasures of the flesh calling and my bitter loneliness driving; by God’s grace I did not immolate myself.

    What of those young men in that same position? Should we abandon them to fight temptation alone without providing an alternative?

    My demand is not of you, it is of the church as a whole. As I stated, various nigh unknown bloggers do provide advice and that is it. Even the largest of the Christian practical advice camp, Vox, is in the game camp. The Christian cultural industry can pump out all kinds books on kissing dating goodbye and what not. Why is no one in the industry providing young men with practical advice.

    As for practical advice; I am a nerd. I need a system. What, do you wish Christians to leave all of us who can not naturally grasp social interaction to a life of loneliness, or to the temptations of the flesh, for not intuitively grasping an art?

    Even art must be codified and taught; all arts require tools. Would you give a man fingerpaints and expect him to produce the Sistine Chapel with no training?

    And on this, where in the Bible, does it teach a man how to paint?

  19. “I probably have all the intellectual advice I can use.”

    I’m sure you do. So do I — I’ve been around since 2008. What you need is spiritual advice.

    What are women for? They didn’t just pop out of the ground. They were created. Why?
    What are you for?

    “Don’t put them on pedestals” goes in the ear, but it doesn’t stick, because you don’t know, with certainty, where they should go.

    If someone came up to you and said, “Women are spiritually superior,” you could argue with him, and hold your frame. Because that’s hogwash, and you know it. You’d go to the mats for that one.

    There are still things you don’t believe enough.

  20. @ Steve Baker: Funny how in the Bible the righteous never seem to ask for ‘credentials’; only the wicked. I have been married for 39 years, 3 children(saved), 5 g. children(4 saved), 17y/o g.child died in April. He had a strong relationship with God and I know( not believe, not have faith), I know he is with Jesus.8 grg.children learning to love God as their age allows. My ‘credentials’ have nothing to do with what is available to learn from the bible thru the Holy Spirit. Nope, not brakes, or electrical engineering, or even how to build an Ark. The bible, from start to finish is all about relationship. Everything is relationship. And you think you can learn nothing from God. You have already learned on your own, from bitter experience. You want me to believe( be persuaded) that your relationship with your wife follows instructions like building a cabinet or painting a Bob Ross rose. I call bullshit on that. At best it could be a business arrangement, which is an ok marriage covenant.
    Nuance! Yeah, according to the definition it means practically nothing, but for those who understand, it is huge.

  21. Everything you want to know of Humans can be learned in the Bible. All the surface things? No, absolutely not, because there wasn’t the same technology to respond with nor the same cultural norms to respond to.

    But the heart of every man and woman? The very core of what drives them, of what responds to God, to other humans, to technology, and the world?

    That is in the Bible. You need look no further, though that’s not to say you won’t have to look deep into the bible.

    What’s more, is that people fail to notice what a great temptation the whole thing of “Game” is. Temptation towards sex is part, but temptation towards pride and vanity are far, far more corrupt. I’ve had a lot of issues shaking those claws off my soul.

  22. @Leap

    Temptation towards sex is part, but temptation towards pride and vanity are far, far more corrupt. I’ve had a lot of issues shaking those claws off my soul.

    Yes, exactly. This has been my criticism since the beginning; since Cypher’s Problem. I keep being charged with being “afraid” of fornication, but it’s not what is actually found when my words are actually read.

    It remains important–especially for those who like lists–that we are given some lists in the Bible, and several of them say to stay away from fornication. It’s worth mentioning because those lists are easy to find and yet it does not seem to matter to those who profess Game. Not only can they not follow the simple rules; they don’t even acknowledge them in earnest.

  23. I agree with those who have pointed out that art nevertheless has technique (which is not the same as a system). Technique is imminently teachable, but technique becomes art in the hands of those with natural talent, or lots of practice. For example, anyone can learn to draw, but only those willing to put in the time, or with the proper natural instinct, become masters. Nevertheless, everyone can benefit from a few lessons, and a little technique is all most people ever need to accomplish their basic goals.

    The Bible has a great deal of wisdom to offer on the art of being a man (or a woman, and all the unique roles each fulfills), but it is low on technique. This, I think, is where the critics have an opening, because there is no “chapter and verse” for “how to pass shit tests”. Cane is right when he says it’s in there: there are many verses to the effect that a man stands his ground, that a confident man has nothing to fear, that a woman is not worth lowering yourself to please. (Many psalms are indicative of this, and the story of David dancing with the return of the ark, Saul’s daughter scorning him, and his putting her off come readily to mind). However, these are the broad, fluid strokes that define manhood, and I expect that, for many people, such advice comes across as either vague, or too “generic” and “just be yourself”-ish for these folks.

    I think perhaps we talk past each other, forgetting the value of the community, the history of oral tradition, and that the Bible, while all is good for learning, is not the end-all-be-all of all worthy knowledge. The Bible DOES give good advice, but in general terms. This is best suited to it, as it is the more timeless that way (techniques change and improve over time, but the basics of the art will always remain), but I hardly think it is sacrilege to ask for more specific, timely, actionable explanations of what the general advice means.

    To continue the analogy, let us liken relationships to swordplay. It is one thing to tell a novice to treat the weapon as an extension of his arm, to be constantly alert to his surroundings, wary, and yet relaxed. These are the essence of a true master warrior. And yet, such advice is almost useless to a novice. Sure, he can try, but most people aren’t naturals and can’t just DO that because someone says so, and claims it’s all there and easy. However, the teaching of technique alone is likewise destined to create a student who is too robotic. Technique and spirit are both required for the best result.

    Game sites offer technique, but no spirit. Christian Manosphere sites (if you will) often offer spirit, with very little in the way of technique. I have hardly seen all there is to offer, but it seems to me what is being requested is a Christian site which offers the guiding spirit of Christian principal, with modern technique to effect the principle. Realize that many of those approaching are as children in this manner. Cane runs an excellent site, but it is of a more philosophical bent. This is fine: he should write what he feels moved to. But it is somewhat disingenuous to say he has offered the milk required for those who are newborns to Christian masculinity, when he has truly put out meat suitable only for those further along. I say this not to slight those who come here (or elsewhere) seeking advice, but to recognize their position, as many have made clear “no one has taught them this.”

  24. Free Northener, Jesus freed us from the system. He didn’t abolish the system, he made us look beyond it. You know who were good at systems? The Pharisees and the Saducees. They followed traditions made by men (and what did Jesus say about that in accordance to God’s laws?) You know who were bad at systems? Jesus and his disciples. Healed on the sabbath day, rebuked teachers of the law, didn’t wash before eating, ate with sinners, healed sinners the Pharisees didn’t care about, etc, etc. The system cannot be completely ignored, but the system has a purpose behind it and is fulfilled in a way that does not require it.

    If you read the bible you’ll see it “skips” a lot of detail. What was Moses thinking during the 40 years of shepherding? What were the other characters doing for the length of their lives (which spanned hundreds of years?) So we know that what it does describe is important in some way. Read the interactions of the characters with women and laws concerning women. Not just the NT but the OT too. David has a lot, Moses has some, there are a lot of stories scattered here and there. Read them all, meditate on them, and tell me you don’t understand anything about the nature of woman (and man). Could Cane Caldo take all the info he knows and make it into a system you or Christian men can swallow? Probably. It would only be a shadow of what the Bible is saying. You have to discover that yourself. God shows examples in scripture and life, just like God showed Jonah, Paul, etc. To take the wisdom of the Bible only at the level of a system is trying to make a system out of God.

  25. Just caught up on all the comments.

    According to which: It’s as if the books of the Law, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and all the admonitions in the New Testament weren’t even written; not to mention the way God emphasizes Israel’s idolization in the books of the prophets.

  26. peoplegrowing, in his January 18, 2014 at 12:48 am post, hit the nail exactly on the head. He said what I wish I could have said even half as well.

    Cane Caldo, do not be surprised at our blindness. It was prophecied, it is the curse of disobedience. As is the situation that women and little children now rule over us. For years now I have followed the Law, and my life has improved, my relationships have gotten better. But not nearly as much as it would if there were more people who were earnestly seeking His Will.

    Do not beat us for our blindness; if you have information you feel moved to share, please do.

    Have you ever cared for sheep? I have. And goats, and other livestock. It is good training for ministry. If you feel so called, there is a ministry that needs filling: a set of techniques for those of us who don’t read the Bible and see what you see. Techniques to deal with those Christian girls who whisper to their friends “Eww, not him!”. Techniques to improve socially, especially in sexual attractiveness, without the frustrations of taking advice from Roissy and his ilk.

    One Christian blogger, widely read, has recently justified pump and dump in his mind. Now he can use Roissy’s advice. I’d like to learn and model from a man who knows how to be attractive to women without being a whoremonger.

    Can you recommend such a man? Most “Christian” men who happen to be “alpha” are irreparably Blue Pill, not Biblical, and give atrocious advice. They don’t even KNOW what they do that makes them attractive.

  27. Looking through some of Cane’s earliest posts to this blog, I see he didn’t believe in polygyny, neither did he believe remarriage is allowed after divorce.

    Since you say you follow the Word, Cane, do you still believe these things? Or do you acknowledge that these things are burdens upon the Elect that were not placed there by the Father. In fact, they are part of the mechanism by which Christian men were enslaved to women and children. By altering the Word to say something it does not, the consequence is direct: slavery to women and children, and clamoring to learn “Game” to try to fix the problem. But the solution is Obedience to the Word.

  28. Just stepping in for a moment here, don’t mind me.

    Cane, if it helps, I speak nerd. (In my family, I’m the analytic thinker, my husband specializes in synthesis.)

    When teaching, there are only three things you are ever doing:
    1) teaching a skill- this is done by coaching- it involves the steps of model, imitate, and assess. Arts are to some degree skills because they involve learned actions and the involvement of a mentor.
    2) conveying information-this is learned by memorization and Vann be assessed by percentages. You can assess that you have memorized 80% of a poem in a way that you can never say you have mastered 80% of horseback riding.
    3) discovering truth-this is learned through conversation and contemplation. Reading the Bible is about discovering truth. So is really learning Mathematics. This is what Science used to mean which is why theology is the queen of the sciences.

    To properly teach anything, you must teach according to the nature of the subject. From the post above, I see that you are arguing that they’re is both Art and Science to the study of managing the relationship between the sexes. The Art is learned by modeling yourself on those who are further along in this. Ideally a man is taught by his father. It appears you have a generation of fatherless men looking for a role model. The Science is going in really reading the Bible, seeking to find the timeless wisdom within, and what it says about the nature of men and women.

    So, point to the model, and then teach them to read. This is a lost art.

    I’ll throw in my own hints. If you want to know about women, look at Eve, Jezebel, Delilah, Ruth, Esther, Judith, and Mary. You will learn just about everything about our weaknesses and our strengths.

    Also a few comments on some things that showed up in the comments thread:
    “Just be yourself” is woman for “don’t pretend to be someone you’re not.” This is based on our own experience of being miserable trying to do things like fake interests we don’t have or play down traits like intelligence under the impression that it will make us more attractive. It sticks out like an ill fitting suit. More importantly, it sets you up to attract the wrong kind of mate. If we are stuck in a age of love matches, doesn’t it make more sense to find someone who actually shares your interests, rather than resents them? The point is not to avoid self improvement or to not broaden your skills, but not to deny who you are at core.

    “Marriage is not about fulfilling sexual fantasies.” This is quite true. Lackluster sex will still adequately fulfill all the purposes of marriage (generation of children, remedy for concupiscence, mutual sanctification of spouses). More fundamentally, marriage is not about personal fulfillment. It is about accomplishing the mission God gave you. If you are to be married, you are looking for the spouse who will help you achieve your mission. Personal satisfaction is a fruit of that, but only achieved by focusing on the roots (faith in God and focus on mission) and what feeds the tree (your actions). So long as you are saying I deserve instead of they deserve, you are approaching marriage wrong. Which isn’t to say you should deliberately choose a spouse that will make you miserable. But you have to realize that a frigid woman can turn enthusiastic, and a enthusiastic one can, and often does, turn frigid. Fornication will not mitigate risk.

  29. Pingback: Some Follow-Up On What I’ve Been On About | Things that We have Heard and Known

  30. Anyone who looks to this blog for advice on attracting women is looking in the wrong place. I chuckle at zippy as well. All I really see here is an insistence on seeing the world “their way”.

    Men who criticize other men for desiring a sexually satisfying marriage are either:

    a) single, and convinced they will never have it, so they want it denied to others

    or

    b) married, and totally convinced they will never have it, so they want it denied to others.

    No man who is satisfied in this area will want to tell others they are not to seek it.

    Maybe some of these guys have overweight wives? Who knows. But I blame no man for wanting what the Good Lord designed into him.

    And I have to agree about the “mystery” analysis. When someone tells you about a great job opportunity, but won’t give you any details until you attend an “orientation”, you know it is just another Amway pitch.

    Even the most esoteric arts have exercises, drills, bite-sized elements that can be practiced by rote until later, when the person can act artfully.

    Cane seems to demand that the person sublimate directly to a full fledged artist, with no allowance for a transitional state.

    I’m sure he thinks that musicians should not practice scales, since they are a ‘system’, and therefore not real music. I’m sure he thinks the driving range is for awkward nerds; real men display their athletic artistry on the golf course. Practice mixing paints? Proof of your autistic, rather than artistic tendencies.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the charge is grandiosity. The verdict is ‘guilty’.

    You are hereby sentenced to remain grandiose forever. Court is adjourned.

  31. By the way, zippy, only passive-aggressive gay-sounding men call other people “buttercup” and “cupcake”.

    It is very revealing that you feel your opinions are so weak that you have to use a condescending opener to make a strained play for power.

    Man up please, in the truest sense of the phrase.

    Mmmm-kay, pumpkin???

  32. jack:
    By the way, zippy, only passive-aggressive gay-sounding men call other people “buttercup” and “cupcake”.

    Mmmm-kay, pumpkin???

    I have nothing further to add.

  33. @Jack

    Your misrepresentation of my posts and perspective is born of your ignorance and thoughtlessness. Hey, I’ve been there.

    However; since you’ve arrived you have been nothing but contentious and rude; not to mention your variance and constant emulation. Enjoy moderation.

  34. Pingback: Responses to Alternatives | Free Northerner

  35. @Cane, Late catching up with your recent postings. But will say that peoplegrowing’s comment hits it out of the park. You speak of art and that’s fine. But all art begins with a base from which the artistry can develop. I didn’t learn the art of programming without the base techniques. I didn’t learn the art of playing sports without the base fundamentals. I didn’t learn the art of creative writing without the base language rules and narrative techniques.

    So if we are talking about the art of interacting with women, the art of evaluating a woman for marriage and the art of maintaining that marriage, we must begin with some base level of knowledge and technique upon which we can build that artistry while honoring the Lord at the same time. Just saying it’s all there and leaving us to flounder looking for it is just a tad light… that said, will continue reading your more recent posts to see how far you’re evolving on this point.

  36. Pingback: It’s Just Business « Calculated Bravery

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