Thanksgiving for Pushers

In response to my lack of appreciation for Game, Keoni writes:

Discovering “Game” was my game changer. It gave me a language to describe and think about so many things I previously could not even name, let alone comprehend. It provided a schema for grasping the larger concepts bereft in my emasculated upbringing. And ultimately, it has also  eventually brought me around full circle into belief in the truth of the Gospel of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

For this, I have the degenerate scumbags, the cads, the God Awful P-U-A to thank. Oh promiscuous manwhores who proclaim your proficiency in fornication and adultery, it is your discussions and note-sharing on how to commit these debased sins of hedonistic nihilism by exploiting the fallen, sinful nature of women, that helped me come to understand the primary sin that has infiltrated and subverted Christianity in the West, the sin of IDOLATRY.

My reaction was wildly different; a mental nausea induced by seeing myself reflected in Roissy’s nihilism. It does come to my mind that Keoni is far behind on his thanksgiving; as I have yet to see him thank Monsanto for teaching him about genetically modified food; the Federal Reserve for usury; the NSA for tyranny…I don’t get the praise for the Assyrians, here.

And it’s this that animates me to caution against Game. I can’t stand most psycho-pharmacology either, but I don’t go on about it because I don’t run into a lot of Christians who say,

“For this, I have the degenerate scumbags, the pushers, the God Awful Gangsta to thank. Oh, street pharmacists who proclaim your proficiency in slinging and dealing, it is your discussions and note-sharing on how to commit these debased sins of hedonistic nihilism by exploiting the addictive nature of users, that helped me come to understand the primary abuse that has infiltrated and subverted medicine in the West, the ABUSE OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.”

One just doesn’t hear that sort of thing said. It’s nevertheless true that a study of drug dealers could be the beginnings of knowledge on the landscape of prescription drug addiction; to see the motivations of lazy doctors and greedy Big Pharma; the erratic and dangerous methods of drug approval; the collusion of physicians’ associations. But even if you’re in pain and there are no legitimate pharmacists in sight, it remains that it would be a very bad idea to buy heroin from the dealers who’ve told you they heavily cut their product, and tell yourself that unlike those guys: You know how to use it wisely.

More importantly, if I wanted to tell these truths to others I’d both want them to get the real truth straightaway, and also not have to go through addiction, dealers, overdoses, the slums, etc. to arrive at it.

So many opportunities to praise God for what He gave us in His Word are instead turned into cheerleading for Game. His Word has been there all along, but because you, me, or our fathers didn’t bother to check it out: More praise goes to Game; an incoherent and indefinite thing that’s not as old as some of my clothes.

See also: Zippy on the merits of syphilis.

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21 thoughts on “Thanksgiving for Pushers

  1. What do you propose to give men the guidance and confidence to speak out in the feminist apostate church of America where men are gelded from birth and even reading and bringing up non-feminist verses will cause the pastors and deacons and elders in churches to excommunicate them? Where are young men supposed to find this leadership?

    I suppose you leave them to the Red Pill Pushers.

  2. It’s interesting how blind spots create a warped sense of… gratitude or excessive appreciation in what revealed them… rather than giving thanks to God.

    Of course, this is exactly the problem that you encounter when something else shatters their world view because of the lies of society. For example, when people learn that exercise is not the way to lose weight because nutrition is the main culprit — primarily counting calories although food choice do matter — they typically go off the deep end in regard to being hyperaware about their nutrition and obsessing over it.

    You see the same thing with game/women here with a lot of Christians in the manosphere. Dealing with women is certainly an important part of life, but it needs to be put all into context.

  3. Last week, game was in the Bible, now it’s younger than your clothes. Are you a prog by any chance? I ask because your glib talking points contradict each other the same way theirs do. Everything you say is an attempt to muddy the water, not clarify it.

    That kind of apologetics doesn’t gain you any converts. It suggests that you aren’t entirely unaware that your position is indefensible.

    Once upon a time, I was young and believed in gun control. I noticed myself arguing the way you do. I had to be honest with myself. My position was indefensible, and I ended up switching sides.

    It’s hard to give up a public ego-investment in a lie, but you need to think about what kind of man you want to be. Are you ashamed to be seen to admit you were wrong? I’d be ashamed to be seen to argue like a used car salesman, myself.

    YMMV.

  4. Steve Baker:
    It isn’t that difficult. Masculinity has been around since men have existed. The attempt by low life perverts to own authentic masculinity by naming it “Game” started last tuesday.

    Cane:
    The drug dealer analogy is great, and “I don’t get the praise for the Assyrians, here” … classic.

  5. I cannot speak for others, but I don’t feel like praising men like Roissy for helping clue me into things. Of course, it was really people like Dalrock and Vox who did that, but still. No, I feel a sense of shame (or perhaps guilt is more accurate) that it took the “pushers” to help me remove the rose-tinted goggles (or to put the sunglasses on, whichever analogy/metaphor you prefer).

  6. @SB

    I meant to take you out of moderation yesterday when it became obvious to me that you are commenting in earnest, even if you are wrong, and lying. You’re at least giving me the same honor as you give yourself. Please don’t abuse it.

    Last week, game was in the Bible, now it’s younger than your clothes.

    I said that whatever theoretical knowledge about the natures of men, women, and their relations that is good and useful is in the Bible. The fact that Game writers lay claim to it doesn’t make it bad anymore than the fact that demons recognize Christ is God makes knowledge of the Trinity bad. Therefore, while that knowledge is due credit, Game is not that to which you are indebted.

    Once upon a time, I was young and believed in gun control. I noticed myself arguing the way you do. I had to be honest with myself. My position was indefensible, and I ended up switching sides.

    What you are doing here is called projection. You’re projecting onto me the experience of you being wrong. I’ve been against gun control since I first became aware of it as a thing…much like here. Here, we start to see a pattern emerging.

  7. My reaction was wildly different; a mental nausea induced by seeing myself reflected in Roissy’s nihilism. It does come to my mind that Keoni is far behind on his thanksgiving; as I have yet to see him thank Monsanto for teaching him about genetically modified food; the Federal Reserve for usury; the NSA for tyranny…I don’t get the praise for the Assyrians, here.

    There is an important difference, in that Roissy and the other PUAs aren’t the ones who destroyed marriage. Feminists did with the enthusiastic support of modern Christians. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the very obvious sins of Roissy, but what I see very often is Christians focusing on Roissy’s sins as a sort of smokescreen to avoid accepting the profound failure of modern Christians to honor what God entrusted to us. “Look at Roissy’s sin!” is very often the prelude to “Nothing to see here (in Christianity) folks, move along!” That Roissy has anything to teach Christians about marriage should be deeply humbling to Christians. Very often instead the response is hubris and chest thumping about how morally superior Christians are to Roissy. His sin is undeniable, but we also shouldn’t forget that we (collectively) flooded the world with sluts, a clear stumbling block to men like Roissy.

  8. Heh.

    Cane, you are one of the few dudes around here for which crossing rhetorical swords with, is actually enjoyable. Don’t have the time to give this the response it deserves, so I will be back later.

    At the moment, I will leave with this one point though, that I think you missed – the passage you quoted was written in the spirit of facetious smart-assery to poke at the pride of what I see as so many Christians that approach this topic with a holier than thou attitude while denouncing the PUA and Game.

    That being said, I must give thanks to you for the opportunity to sharpen the iron.

    To quote Schwarzenegger’s well used line in all of his blockbusters: “I’ll Be Back”

    Oh wait…. he’s an adulterer and fornicator! Damn, I shouldn’t have cited his famous movie lines when I had the opportunity to praise God instead…

  9. Dalrock:

    There is an important difference, in that Roissy and the other PUAs aren’t the ones who destroyed marriage.

    They are a part of it, in much the same way that AIDS is part of the whole homosexual revolution.

    Most modern Christians are modern liberals (whether self-labeled that way or not) first and Christians second. The reason Roissy is treated like such a prophet is that he sells a kind of soft antiliberalism with SEX![tm]

    Real life and parody are becoming harder to distinguish.

  10. @Dalrock

    There is an important difference, in that Roissy and the other PUAs aren’t the ones who destroyed marriage.

    This simply isn’t true. If a number of sexual partners greater than one diminishes a woman’s marriageability, then whomever collaborated with such a woman bears some responsibility. We call those men who are proficient at such collaboration: Cads. You’re excusing the drug dealer because he was born into a culture where drug use is rampant. Man, I ain’t even trying to lock him up! I just said he’s slinging poison.

    There is nothing wrong with pointing out the very obvious sins of Roissy, but what I see very often is Christians focusing on Roissy’s sins as a sort of smokescreen to avoid accepting the profound failure of modern Christians to honor what God entrusted to us.

    You’re lumping me for the hubris of other men. At the very least, you’re saying I have to account for them. No, I don’t. That’s like saying I need to take into account my part in my parents’ divorce.

    What I should do–what I have done–is:

    1) Not perpetuate sin myself; not even when I could profit by another’s sin

    2) Say, “Have you seen my man Dalrock; have you seen my man Voddie Baucham? They know what’s going on, and they have good, clean food.”

    That Roissy has anything to teach Christians about marriage should be deeply humbling to Christians.

    But Roissy didn’t have anything to teach me about marriage. First of all: I said I read him and saw myself as I had been before I’d ever heard of Roissy. Second, and more importantly: Roissy teaches against marriage!

    Don’t lose the reference that he is the parasite having concern about the host. He’s no different than a fifty-year-old, liberated working woman going on about what’s wrong with men. He shames the Betas–the providers and protectors of those whom by the fact that they are born women and sinful like all the rest of us are bound to be slutty–the very men to whom God gave his own name: Father.

  11. I don’t have time to respond to all of your points right now, but I wanted to at least respond to this:

    @Dalrock

    There is an important difference, in that Roissy and the other PUAs aren’t the ones who destroyed marriage.

    This simply isn’t true. If a number of sexual partners greater than one diminishes a woman’s marriageability, then whomever collaborated with such a woman bears some responsibility. We call those men who are proficient at such collaboration: Cads. You’re excusing the drug dealer because he was born into a culture where drug use is rampant. Man, I ain’t even trying to lock him up! I just said he’s slinging poison.

    What percent of the women Roissy has had sex with had a serious intention of marrying as a virgin, or even marrying the first man they had sex with? The number of women who (honestly) plan on limiting their N to 1 is extremely small, and this is reflected in the ever rising median age of marriage. This isn’t just the case for non Christian women, but for Christian women as well. As I wrote above, we (collectively) have flooded the market with women looking to fornicate. Roissy’s response to this temptation isn’t the moral one, but it is dishonest to frame his response as the cause of our collective decision to walk away from marriage. Moreover, the vast majority of Christians are now incredibly hostile towards biblical marriage, even leaving aside the issue of marriage being the crowning jewel in a woman’s serial monogamous path.

    What bothers the vast majority of people (including Christians) about Roissy is not that he has sex outside of marriage, but that he is sabotaging what I have satirically dubbed “Women’s sacred path to marriage”. Yet when it comes to the true menace to sexual morality, the folks outraged at Roissy for not playing to this fornicate-then-marry (then divorce or threaten divorce) game are the very people who are doing the serious damage. Roissy is an easy target, but we “fix” him and all of the PUAs like him and it wouldn’t change the fact that modern Christians are now fundamentally hostile to marriage.

  12. Pingback: The B-Eatings will Continue Until the Threshing is Done | Things that We have Heard and Known

  13. @Dalrock

    What bothers the vast majority of people (including Christians) about Roissy is not that he has sex outside of marriage, but that he is sabotaging what I have satirically dubbed “Women’s sacred path to marriage”.

    What does that have to do with me, or my blog?

    This conversation is going something like this:

    CC: “Game isn’t great: God is great.”

    Dal:”You leave Roissy alone! Roissy showed us how Christians destroyed marriage!”

    CC: “No, Roissy showed you–a non-Christian at the time–how Christians destroyed marriage; much how one demon would instruct another on how awful God’s creation behaves. He didn’t show me anything that I didn’t already know. Really, I’m not even talking about Roissy, and I spend most of my time talking to Christians about how to see the world around from a Biblical perspective; rather than that of most modern preachers, or Roissy.”

    Dal: “You’re being dishonest by saying that continuing a pattern of crime is itself a crime. (“it is dishonest to frame his response as the cause of our collective decision to walk away from marriage”)

    CC: “No, I’m not. Continuing a pattern of crime is criminal regardless of whether it is lucrative or easy, i.e., incentivized. Christians shouldn’t be criminals, and they shouldn’t practice criminal behavior whether learned from a player or a preacher.”

    Dal: “BUT CHRISTIANS AREN’T PRACTICING CHASTITY AND MONOGAMY!”

    CC: “I KNOW! THEY SHOULD START, BUT THEY NEVER WILL IF WE CALL WISE THOSE PEOPLE WHO TELL THEM CHASTITY AND MONOGAMY IS FOR SUCKERS!”

    That goes for pastors or players. I don’t tell people to listen to Mark Driscoll. I tell them to listen to Voddie Baucham. I don’t tell people to listen to Roissy. I tell them to listen to Dalrock. If you or Baucham make the mistake of telling people to listen to Driscoll or Roissy, then that’s on y’all.

  14. Ok, I’m back…

    First, I’d like to address this comment from Zippy before getting to the post: The reason Roissy is treated like such a prophet is that he sells a kind of soft antiliberalism with SEX![tm]

    Soft antiliberalism with SEX! blogs are a dime a dozen on teh Interwebz.

    No, Roissy is highly regarded for his ability to write beautiful prose even when the topic is quite ugly. As the Social Pathologist calls him in his blogroll, “The Devil’s Virtuoso.” The man has a talent for word-smithing.

    ———

    Ok…let’s do this.

    My reaction was wildly different; a mental nausea induced by seeing myself reflected in Roissy’s nihilism.

    Ahh, so your first exposure to “game” was the Devil’s Virtuoso…and his account of his sins gave you an accurate reflection of your own sinful past. I see why the great distaste.

    It does come to my mind that Keoni is far behind on his thanksgiving; as I have yet to see him thank Monsanto for teaching him about genetically modified food; the Federal Reserve for usury; the NSA for tyranny…I don’t get the praise for the Assyrians, here.

    Big difference. I first came across the concepts of game at a now defunct and deleted blog called “The Reality Method.” That guy was no nihilist, and most of what he wrote about was strictly based on his observations on women’s attraction triggers and explaining their behavior.

    By the time I found Roissy’s blog, I was already well versed in the concepts of pick up artistry.

    Now here’s the difference as to why I give thanks to the immoral PUA for setting me on my path of seeking truth…. Monsanto did not teach me about GMO food, they poisoned me with it. The Federal Reserve didn’t teach me about usury, it enslaved me with it. The NSA didn’t teach me about tyranny, it subjugated me with it. In all three instances you claim I need to give thanks for teaching me about these things, I had no choice, as these entities did those things to me and I was not even aware of it. I was born into a prison not of my own making, nor did I consciously choose to experience what they inflict on us.

    Your analogy here, while humorous to read, is a fallacious. You are mixing up sin vs. sinner.

    In all of your examples, it was my fellow fallen sinners (who wrote books and posted about these topics on teh Interwebz) that looked at these various, damnable and infernal incorporated spawns of satan, and pointed out what they are doing to us all.

    Being made aware of these truths has caused me to alter my behavior. Instead of worrying about the sanctity and purity of the messengers, I hearkened unto their messages, contemplated and ruminated on them, and accepted the things they pointed out for which I ascertained had a degree of veracity I could not deny.

    So I changed my behavior based on discovering these truths that other fallen sinners have lead me to, and have realized the benefits for doing so. I no longer eat Monsanto’s poison, I avoid the banking cartel’s usury as much as I possibly can and I do my best to subvert and avoid the surveillance tyranny from our technocratic overlords, as best as I possibly can.

    This whole “game” thing is no different. What the PUA did, was introduce me to some new concepts and words I had no clue even existed, based on my entire lifetime of emasculating indoctrination and cultural programming (the worst of which was in my Christian denomination’s “Female Spiritual Purity” upbringing) in which I was inducted into the idolatry of Goddess worship.

    So many opportunities to praise God for what He gave us in His Word are instead turned into cheerleading for Game.

    You mistake men giving thanks and just desserts for pointing them on the path to truth as worship and idolatry.

    One can thank Roissy for showing him the error of his ways, which then leads him to repentance and re-ordering his life and priorities, no?

    “My reaction was wildly different; a mental nausea induced by seeing myself reflected in Roissy’s nihilism.”

    Looks to me like you have some of your own thanksgiving to do…as the Devil’s Virtuoso seems to have given you a righteous kick of self-conviction and affirmation in your faith!

    His Word has been there all along, but because you, me, or our fathers didn’t bother to check it out:

    DIdn’t bother to check it out? The word has been there all along, yet it was hidden from me and my father in plain sight. It was hidden by the devious subversion of Churchianity with Goddess worship…female approval as the holy arbiter of righteousness. The word itself was obscured or ignored by cultural conditioning – both from the secular culture AND the congregation’s culture within.

    More praise goes to Game; an incoherent and indefinite thing that’s not as old as some of my clothes.

    The ironic thing here is that the point is not to “praise Game” in and of itself, but rather give credit where it is due. Game is a Praxeology (see my latest post at my blog if you will), and it’s modern terminology helped wipe away the deceptions and delusions that obscured me from His Word, and helped me see the truth for the first time.

    As Vox stated, Game is based on truth, and understanding truth can help one find the path to The Truth.

  15. @KG

    Being made aware of these truths has caused me to alter my behavior. Instead of worrying about the sanctity and purity of the messengers, I hearkened unto their messages, contemplated and ruminated on them, and accepted the things they pointed out for which I ascertained had a degree of veracity I could not deny.

    Could you have appreciated them if you yourself had not also been a former fornicator? You don’t have to answer. It’s a rhetorical question meant to point out that you actually had to practice the sinful parts of Game; even if it was before you learned what you were doing. This goes back to your point on Praxeology; which premise I agree with.

    The ironic thing here is that the point is not to “praise Game” in and of itself, but rather give credit where it is due. Game is a Praxeology (see my latest post at my blog if you will), and it’s modern terminology helped wipe away the deceptions and delusions that obscured me from His Word, and helped me see the truth for the first time.

    Satan’s job is to persecute, and this persecution is just inasmuch as we are not a part of Christ; who justifies us. Why doesn’t the Bible praise Satan? Why is persecution continually referenced as the works of Satan, and not the works of God?

  16. It’s a rhetorical question meant to point out that you actually had to practice the sinful parts of Game; even if it was before you learned what you were doing.

    Sorry, I assumed you were familiar with my background. I got married in the late 90’s. I discovered “game” on teh Interwebz around 2006/2007. When I confess that I was a fornicator in my youth, I was merely referring to my youth as a bachelor. I was just another lost soul amongst the Generation X herd following the “dating” norm of serial monogamy. Sex was generally confined to “official” boyfriend/girlfriend relationships. I fornicated, but had absolutely zero concept of game. I was the brainwashed, blue pill boy deluded by all the lies of mainstream society – that I had to be nice, in touch with my emotions, treat women equally, etc. to make a relationship work. In hindsight, I now realize exactly why none of my previous girlfriends of my youth never developed into long term relationships headed towards marriage.

    I was still under the spell of these lies when I got married. After the ‘honeymoon’ period of our marriage ended (about 2 years or so), I began the descent into spineless, pussy whipped beta-tude and our marriage suffered for it. It took finding “Game” on the ‘net to realize why my wife had become a contemptuous bitch…because I had become a spineless, sackless wimp.

    I began to treat her as if she were my mother, rather than my wife. Game gave me the schema, the words, to identify the thoughts and behaviors I was engaged in, whereas before I was in complete ignorance. I was blindly following the script of society which is basically the cult of Goddess worship.

    Game gave me the tools to deprogram from that.

    There is no “sinful” parts of game.

    But there is using the tools of game to commit sin. It can also be used to commit righteousness.

    I can shoot a wild pig with my gun and feed my family, or I can rob a senior citizen in the streets with my gun to feed my family.

    In either case, do you blame or praise the gun…or the man who wielded it to commit the deed?

  17. @KG

    1) Fornication is fornication. You had poor Game; poor praxeology. You had the experience of fornication through which you could filter what you were reading of Game. Again: You have to practice it–at some point–to get it.

    2) Game is not a gun. Game is a praxeology. It’s what you do with the gun. Hunting is to Game as your johnson is to a gun. Robbing is to Game as your hand is to a tool.

  18. What is praxeology but a collection of axiomatic truths to fashion an abstract tool for use to achieve your end result? Ah well, let’s not get bogged down on semantics.

    Got a question for you Cane…

    Do you think Cail Corishev’s excellent account of the following: http://cailcorishev.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/men-behaving-lamely/

    …would have even been possible for him to conceive of without having first discovered teh MAndrosphere and the debates and discussions we all have been having for the past several years? I don’t.

    Whether you like it or not, “Game” is the paradigm shift for most men and waking up to the truth about how mainstream society is inundated with lies and deciet, and is the primary impetus for the existence of the MAndrosphere in the first place.

  19. Fornication is fornication. You had poor Game; poor praxeology. You had the experience of fornication through which you could filter what you were reading of Game. Again: You have to practice it–at some point–to get it.

    Is that why you read Roissy and “got it” too? Despite recoiling in horror and disgust at the reflection of nihilism he presented for you, his use of Game as a praxeological tool for analysis sure seemed to give you quite the light bulb moment of your own.

  20. @KG

    Do you think Cail Corishev’s excellent account of the following: http://cailcorishev.wordpress.com/2014/01/21/men-behaving-lamely/

    …would have even been possible for him to conceive of without having first discovered teh MAndrosphere and the debates and discussions we all have been having for the past several years?

    Sure. I did. But that doesn’t really answer the question that asks the question: Wasn’t it the Men’s Sphere that helped him conceive it? Yes, but it wasn’t things that were unique to Game. Game–at it’s core–is about seducing women. Game didn’t have to exist to form the Men’s Sphere; which is closer to a source of strength than the applied psychology of how to seduce women, i.e., Game.

    Is that why you read Roissy and “got it” too? Despite recoiling in horror and disgust at the reflection of nihilism he presented for you, his use of Game as a praxeological tool for analysis sure seemed to give you quite the light bulb moment of your own.

    No, I got it before I ever heard of Game. Some of that I’ve written on here (there’s a post called “Shopping at the Maul” or something like that), as well as other posts where I’ve talked more than necessary about my own personal experiences. There are others that I’m not going to get into.

    I found Roissy because at the time I liked political commentary, and so I’ve been reading Vox for years. Through him, I found Steve Sailer, and through Steve Sailer an article in the Weekly Standard about Roissy.

    When I really got it was when I decided that no matter what I was going to stay married, and if that meant that God used my life as a lesson for other men on how to get better wives, or that she would kill me, or that I would have another affair, then so be it. I was going to show–one way or another–that God’s way is right for a man to do because He is God and I am not.

  21. Pingback: Wisdom | Things that We have Heard and Known

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