Bad Up Good Down

Whether my suspicion that Lourdes Torres Manteufel’s (LTM) marriage is part of her revenge or not, I think the lawsuit against Doug Phillips must be considered to be so. Such revenge should not–must not!–be acceptable to Christians. Nor is there anything of meekness or quiet about her manner. Two Facebook pages–to remind everyone that one is the woman who tried to steal Mrs. Phillips husband and disgrace one’s own father–are two too many. Yet I have read nothing against LTM but the very merest criticism.

Meanwhile; Phillips confessed his sin. He recused himself from leadership at both his church and the organizations he founded (including the very successful Vision Forum), both of which ought to be considered fruits of repentance. Until LTM–his accomplice in destruction–sued him, he said nothing publicly against her, nor defended his actions. He has hidden his face in shame since he was discovered. Yet he was hounded from all corners.

I have written about this before. Not only have Christians and Conservatives abandoned one of their own to fend for themselves, but the haughty and vengeful are upheld while the humble and contrite are scorned. Someone needs to evangelize these Christians.

15 thoughts on “Bad Up Good Down

  1. One wonders whether the name of her facebook page, “Together We Overcome” is merely an unfortunate choice of words, or a deliberately provocative multiple entendre.

    One also wonders what Nolan’s sex life is like, with a woman who married him precisely because he was not the patriarchal type, and for whom ejaculation must evoke a PTSD response. She allegedly couldn’t muster the wherewithal to run screaming from DP (!), but I wager she demands a month or more between episodes with Nolan to recover from being shot at. “Oh, Nolan, the horror, the horror! You’ll understand that I just can’t!” “It’s OK, baby, we’ll just put it on the calendar for June.”

  2. In reading the timeline of events from your last post, I think the lawsuit is not just revenge – it is probably necessary for LTM as part of her self-deception over what she’s done. She’s playing the victim so that she doesn’t have to confront the fact she is currently acting like a whore demanding payment for her “services”. She probably did get tired of waiting for Phillips to abandon his wife and marry her and decided that she’d acquire his resources by other means and simultaneously punish him for failing to give her what she wanted. (Or, he started having pangs of conscience and she knew she had to jump ship and come up with some way of deflecting the “homewrecking slut” stigma from herself before HE went public and everyone found out what they’d done.)

    And besides the mercenary motive, the lawsuit probably helps keep Mr. M in the dark as to the identity of her next victim. I doubt it will take her five years to divorce him amid shocking allegations of abuse, especially if she wins the money from Phillips.

    “I cannot imagine what Mr. Mauntafel was thinking when he decided to marry her.” You saw the pictures, right? She is a very beautiful woman who is accustomed to using sex to get what she wants, and the damsel-in-distress routine is perfect for luring in appropriately blinkered white knights who will never let themselves see the ugly truth. I cannot imagine what Mr. Mauntafel’s MOTHER was thinking when he married LTM!

  3. @CR

    Your comment asking me to finish the posts on Phillips nagged me for weeks. Everyone who liked them should thank you.


    You saw the pictures, right?

    I did, but I have always been the jealous sort. No way could I have abided that lawsuit.

  4. Excellent. I will take that as my mite of contribution to the work of this segment of the internet. I appreciate your way of getting right to the heart of a matter.

  5. I have written about this before. Not only have Christians and Conservatives abandoned one of their own to fend for themselves, but the haughty and vengeful are upheld while the humble and contrite are scorned. Someone needs to evangelize these Christians.

    Indeed. I suspect it is even worse for Phillips because opponents of his movement are willing to grab on to anything to discredit the ideas, while the movement itself suffers from what I would say is a gross inability to recognize agency in women. One thing which struck me about Phillips’ writing before the site was taken down was his frequent writing on women in the military, where women’s insistence on being admitted into a male role was consistently framed as men failing to serve in the military and thereby forcing women to join in their place.

    In addition to the harsh treatment of repentant Phillips, there is also the injustice to LTM in being at least tacitly encouraged to avoid repentance herself. Yes, Phillips engaged in sexual sin, but by her own suit it seems clear that she not only engaged in the same sin but hoped to break up another woman’s marriage. As you point out, all of this occurred while she was over 21. Her expectation to be financially rewarded for her sin pretty much says it all.

  6. With a bit of searching and the help of the Internet Archive, I found a cached example of the kind of article I was thinking of regarding women in the military. This one however was not written by Phillips but by other Vision Forum staff writers. But the tone is what I had remembered. Women striving to take over male roles (and supplant men) were presented as victims of men who aren’t willing to fight. They simply couldn’t see women sinning, only weak men forcing women to take their place in combat. Here is the link to the archived version of the page:

    The piece closes with:

    It is high time that we as a people repent of our barbarism — that we cherish our women as women, and call on our men to act as men.

    So it doesn’t surprise me that the Vision Forum folks have great trouble seeing LTM as anything other than a victim.

  7. @Dalrock

    Great references. There is definitely an aspect of Phillips being hoisted upon his own petard. As bad as his circumstances might seem now, if he learns to know and speak the truth from this debacle, it will have been worth it.

  8. I observe that Lourdes puts on display in her Facebook video the cleavage that DP supposedly “Overcame” on numerous occasions, anointing her with the Holy Water of Lourdes, an Extreme Unction, as it were, poured out as a sacrifice for many (in particular, for “all you girls whose lives have been controlled by ‘stupid boys'”).

    Cane, you mention two Facebook pages. I see Together We Overcome. What is the other?

    Instructive to read her latest post, ” As I am learning how a relationship between a husband and wife should TRUELY look, I think I still keep quite [sic] when I should speak up. I am am [sic] an extrovert by nature in my personality, but am an introspective thinker. What helpful thoughts do you have on a wife speaking to her team mate!”

    She’s trying really hard, but I feel sorry for Nolan, as she’ll be a long time getting over DP. I also think that any truly helpful advice will snuff it.

  9. Pingback: Turning a blind eye. | Dalrock

  10. Is it possible that being sexually abused has caused LTM not to react in a rational way? DP had rockstar status in that crowd. As a young girl/woman, I’m not sure how I would have reacted to a man like DP doing sexual stuff. Especially if he was a respected friend of my parents. I imagine I’d be too ashamed to tell. The Catholic Priest scandal had many men saying that they were too ashamed to tell.

    The law suit makes me doubt everything. I wonder how she could have gotten married the way she did. I think I’d need time and space after being sexually abused before having a relationship with a man. DP lost his church, his job and his wife/kids know. What more does LTM need? There are people that will say I’m victim blaming/shaming by asking that. I assume there isn’t evidence to criminally charge him..

    This situation is another confirmation that no good can come from Christians elevating a person to rockstar status.

  11. @LIza

    Is it possible that being sexually abused has caused LTM not to react in a rational way? DP had rockstar status in that crowd. As a young girl/woman, I’m not sure how I would have reacted to a man like DP doing sexual stuff.

    The most likely case is that they were doing sexual stuff together; that there was escalation not just over the years, but during their trysts. I do not believe Phillips simply walked into LTM’s presence, dropped his pants, and started masturbating while she sat there helpless. That’s what the lawsuit alleges, but of course they would deliberately leave her actions out. It’s not their goal to put her actions under scrutiny.

    I don’t think there is any reason to believe LTM was ever very rational when it comes to Phillips, sex, or marriage. She was–among other things–waiting for Mrs. Phillips to die so she could marry Doug Phillips. And while it is fair to characterize Doug Phillips behavior as abusive of LTM, it’s also fair to characterize LTM’s behavior as abusive of Phillips.

  12. I’m generally in agreement with you on this case Cane, but I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that LTM abused Mr. Phillips. Not sure how you reached that conclusion.

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