The Trouble with Chicks Teaching Submission

There is, you know, a difference between an indicative and an imperative. Then recall that most people don’t. If you tell people that a Christian is self-controlled, then they try to be self-controlled instead of trying to be Christian. But self-controlled is an indicative of a Christian. Take up the commandments of Christ, and you begin to get the self-control. Take up self-control itself and you get tired and irritated.

Women don’t need to learn how to be the good wife; the “Proverbs 31 wife”. The Proverbs 31 Wife is an indicative–what a good wife looks like–, it is not an imperative. The imperative–what a wife must do–is obey her husband, raise her children, and run her household well and with honor. That’s it. If she does those things she will become more and more like Proverbs 31 Wife even if she is totally ignorant of that model.

Submission is the absence of rebellion. Wives don’t have to learn “how to be submissive”; they just have to decide not to rebel. You literally cannot learn nothing, and anyone who tries to teach submission (the absence of rebellions, e.g. nothing) with caveats is therefore only teaching the caveats; the ways of rebellion that sound legitimate. That’s why, I am sure, there are no caveats to wifely submission in the Bible.

Which is to say: Most of the women who write on submission should shut up about that, and write about how to run a household, and how to care for children. Of course, women aren’t confined to chores and chirrun. They could write about other things, as well. Singing, for example, is a wonderful endeavor of a woman. Painting is good, too, as is dancing…and there are not half a dozen who would satisfy my notion of an accomplished woman.

Let them teach each other those, and let them leave exceptions of submission alone.

[CC: Expanded from a comment here.]

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18 thoughts on “The Trouble with Chicks Teaching Submission

  1. We’re on a sub-Mission from God!
    Chicks end up as hens, as in Hen-Peck ers.
    And I don’t completely leave Husbands off the hook.
    Wives must first be submissive to Christ, then to their Husbands. But they need to give the husbands the benefit of the doubt.
    Christ COMMANDS many things. For married women, it includes the submission to the husband when it doesn’t glaringly, obviously, neon flashing sign clearly, contradict. Submission is disjoint with discussion.

  2. For the record: So-called “beauty tips” do not fall under the category of “accomplished”, and therefore admirable. They have their place, but as with make-up itself: Less is more.

  3. Rebellion is so subtle and so ingrained, and the daughter of Eve so deceived about her own motivations, that to “decide not to rebel” is quite out of her reach, as though she would know her own rebellion even if pointed out to her. Rebellion to a woman is water to a fish. And it’s not even that “rebellion” is done with a furious countenance or gnashing of teeth; more often it’s a sweet smile and a pretense of submission. A woman can turn submissive behavior into a means of control; I can’t explain that but you’ve seen it. It’s diabolically subtle and clever, and she doesn’t even know she’s doing it.

    She has to be taught what her submission must look like in specific case after specific case, so that she knows what its absence looks like. But for that to happen, her father or husband has to be aware, and that in many cases isn’t happening either. In my case, even after two or three years opening my eyes to the Matrix, I still struggle with recognizing and articulating the concepts needed to do this well. Too often the rebellion, the passive aggression, the dig, or whatever it is (her toolbox is extensive and instinctive), the verbal shiv is in deep and she’s down the road before the realization even hits. “Hey, wait a minute…I’ve just been stabbed, and I’m bleeding my life out!” C-D-E (Cane-Dalrock-Empath) have been good at taking apart these techniques; it’s been very helpful but I still often feel like an old dog trying to learn new tricks.

    And then, pointing it out is risky, too, and is more likely to return indignation than gratitude. Why? Because her goals are worthy but her means are wrong (“If I had submitted to you there it would have hurt our marriage. Are you telling me you don’t want a better marriage?”). There’s a reason men have shorter lives; we die for our wives, at their hands as it were, because we don’t know how to deal with the confounding dissonance. The missus thrives on it even while it kills me, literally.

  4. @Caspar

    In my case, even after two or three years opening my eyes to the Matrix, I still struggle with recognizing and articulating the concepts needed to do this well. Too often the rebellion, the passive aggression, the dig, or whatever it is (her toolbox is extensive and instinctive), the verbal shiv is in deep and she’s down the road before the realization even hits. “Hey, wait a minute…I’ve just been stabbed, and I’m bleeding my life out!”

    This is where the conventional wisdom (from bad counselors) is right, even though they mean it wrong. They say, “You have to pay more attention to her”. They mean for husbands to try to be more pleasing, which is wrong. But a husband must pay attention to his wife if he is going to hear the rebellion, passive aggression, digs, etc.

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  7. You literally cannot learn nothing, and anyone who tries to teach submission (the absence of rebellions, e.g. nothing) with caveats is therefore only teaching the caveats; the ways of rebellion that sound legitimate.

    This strikes me as a related concept to Austers “unprincipled exception.”

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  10. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Suffer not a witch to live.

    There’s a reason that the label of witch strikes so deeply into the female psyche.

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  13. @Caspar’s comments are somewhat enlightening.

    Having just set my sails from the island of dissonance, I was shouted at from the shore. A pleasant smile greeted me, noting that I seemed “different”, maybe a little “colder”. How interesting that the work I came to do was opposed while at anchor, and the minute I turn to leave the spirits of Gentility and Humble Graciousness have returned.

    Caspar is right – submission is obviously something that must be taught, be shown during every opportunity. But so far my attempts have turned into yoooje discussions, debates, and futility. My motives are questioned, my oppressor-ship re-affirmed, the “I don’t want to spend another X years feeling like this” is heard. Almost enough to make me prefer just going in silence.

    The one thing I seem to find myself at fault in is talking too much. As if explaining it will make it any clearer. Nope. Just gets more defenses up, more shurikens thrown back my way. How can you simply correct, or state rebellion and leave it at that? Has anyone here found a steady method to “correct, rebuke, point toward righteousness”?

    So far, things I’m realizing that seem mostly futile:
    – talking about anything I learned in the “manosphere”…even vague concepts, or simple studies.
    – pointing out any form of disrespect, whether as an absolute (“Doing X does not show respect for me…”) or as perspective (“when you did that I felt X…”). Notably – the latter is how so many psyschologists instruct as the non-confrontational form of marriage conversation / debate / negotiation.

    Every attempt is met with a dystopian picture of the world she lives in “now” (obviously things were sunny before marriage), or instant mention of exactly what I did to create the necessity of her actions! Any questions to understand what’s really bothering her CANNOT be met with any clear answer, or “All you want to do is argue” or “you don’t understand / want to understand me”. Has understanding become “listening until I can empathize so well that I will follow through precisely on how you desire me to act” ??

    Ok this is long. In summary – how do you gently, regularly (as needed) confront a wife who seems to think she’s perfect? Is it better to deal with rebellion when it happens, or proactively promote submission during the calm? both?

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