The Government of Christ’s Nation

Chokingonredpills asks:

I may be digressing but I am curious about your views on the separation of church and state.

They’re certainly changing, and I’m unsure of the role of civil government in general. St. Peter wrote:

13 Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, 14 or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. 15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. 16 Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God. 17 Honor everyone. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the emperor.

I accept that just as plainly as it is written.

However, that is not to say that kings and so forth ought to be part of life; only how to respond to them if we find ourselves under them. I was taught–and grew up thinking–that a secular government is the only way to preserve a Christian society. Now that seems to me a very stupid idea on its face: Of course a secular government will work to establish and secure a secular society. In America, we tell a legend of about a Bill of Goods Rights which promised to protect freedom of religion (to practice as each sees fit). As many other have noted this has proven to be freedom from religion. The government too was founded as such. Chicken, meet Egg.

Considering the matter now it seems to me that Christians were given a government to which we are beholden more than the kings and governors of this world.

Jesus is the king. Under Him we are to be organized into churches which correspond, at least loosely, with a geography; probably for the sake of convenience and custom. Those churches are to be governed by priests and overseen by bishops. That’s it.

To go back to St. Peter: I believe he wrote the word of God and both should be obeyed, but I wonder what we are to make of the powers of civil, secular, government. In the OT God sends evil spirits to punish those who do evil. St. Paul advises the congregation in Corinth to cast out the man sleeping with his father’s mother so that Satan can destroy his flesh. It doesn’t sound unreasonable to me to wonder if civil authorities and demons–both of whom are of the world–are in league. But I’m not convinced of it yet.

10 thoughts on “The Government of Christ’s Nation

  1. It doesn’t sound unreasonable to me to wonder if civil authorities and demons–both of whom are of the world–are in league. But I’m not convinced of it yet.

    Have you seen VD’s blogpost on UN modeling itself after Babel?

    Or bizarre dances at CERN?

    What I find most fascinating is how the more I see of this world, the more it looks like the situations described in the Bible. All of them.

    We are sojourners to a Promised Land like in Exodus; we are invaded by surrounding nations like Judges; we are ruled by wicked kings and slightly less wicked kings as in Kings and Chronicles; we are wicked nations ignoring the words of the prophets and chasing prosperity even as God’s judgement begins to pour out …

    Echoes of this Christian SF author’s experiences …

  2. @SH

    I don’t think much of VD’s theory of of Neo-Babelism. That meme he posted is framed to create the effect of a picture which was painted thousands of years after Babel, and with no reference. IOW: That post is only a rhetorical device; which I presume was his intent.

    Now that opening ceremony is something else! It’s not a great advertisement for Western Civilization.

  3. Moderns think we’re so much more advanced than our Biblical ancestors, but as some have pointed out, it’s only a veneer. The rebellious pagan heart bubbles just below the surface.

  4. @CC:

    Just Vox’s picture itself is a correlation.

    This reportedly official UN poster, on the other hand …

    So that makes me write off the UN … now what of the US? That was a bitter pill … but millions of child sacrifices do not lie.

    But all this does is confirm Paul’s point that our struggle is not against flesh and blood.

  5. Almost no one understands the US Constitution as it was written by my forefathers

    The US Constitution is an agreement between the States ie sovrigen political bodies

    Your State constitution is the agreement between the sovgien States and it’s citizens.

    A number of States had official churches when they ratified the Constitution. Acceptance into the now hated union did not require those States to drop their official State Church

  6. @ SFC Ton

    “The US Constitution is an agreement between the States ie sovrigen political bodies”

    Close. The US Constitution is an agreement between the Federal Government, the States and the People. That is one of the separations of powers the Constitution sets up.

    The president is supposed to represent the Federal Government. The Senate is supposed to represent the States (and did until the 17th Amendment). The House of Representatives is supposed to represent the People.

    The 17th Amendment left the states with no representation, which killed our Federalist system, which resulted in excessively centralized Federal power, which resulted in a lot of the abuses we see today.

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