On the Problem of a Romantic View of Germanic Women

I might want to refer to this later, so I’m cross-posting here a comment whichI made at Dalrock’s on his post “Riding to Lancelot’s Rescue”. He quotes C.S. Lewis:

They effected a change which has left no corner of our ethics, our imagination, or our daily life untouched, and they erected impassable barriers between us and the classical past or the Oriental present. Compared with this revolution the Renaissance is a mere ripple on the surface of literature. […] [A] glance at classical antiquity or at the Dark Ages at once shows us that what we took for ‘nature’ is really a special state of affairs, which will probably have an end, and which certainly had a beginning in eleventh-century Provence.

In “Masterpieces of Medieval Literature”, the author talks about this extensively; driving home the point that none of the surviving literature[1] of the Germanic/Norse peoples deal with romantic feelings as a thing separate from sex. The only woman in Beowulf is Hrothgar’s wife–with whom Beowulf has no significant dealings–and Grendel’s mother. Beowulf kills her. Brynhildr is a significant character in the stories of Sigurd, but Sigurd’s attachment to her isn’t a religious-devotion-like romance.

In the Icelandic Eddas[2a], there are stories which include women who make large impact on the stories, but none of them have a purely romantic–by which I mean extra-sexual–element. There is a story about a great man named Gunnar who married a beautiful woman with “the eyes of a thief” and who brings about his death because he once slapped her for stealing. She had two previous husbands killed for the same offense.

However, there was a custom of the Germanic/Norse people which was activated by Romantic Fever and caused it to have a more deleterious effect than in southern Europe: Germanic/Norse and Celtic women had much greater freedom, authority, and strength than either the women of southern Europe, or those of the Near, Middle, and Far Easts.

Once Romantic Fever took over those peoples, pedastalization of women–and thus Feminism–was probably already an unavoidable symptom. Under the infection of religious-devotion to “love”, those Germanic/Nordics had beautiful, strong, independent demi-goddesses on their hands. In more Latin lands (Italy, France, etc.) Romantic Fever didn’t elevate women to such heights.[2b]

[1] This is significant, says Shutt, because only the most popular, the most retold, stories would have survived. The Germanic peoples were late to the written tradition and passed on their stories via an oral tradition. While it’s possible that at one time there existed stories with “romantic” elements, logic says that they weren’t popular, i.e., if they did exist, they didn’t resonate with the audience.

[2a] Because of it’s relative isolation from the rest of Europe, Iceland was less effected by European trends. These descendants of the Norse people (and some Irish) weren’t infected with Romance Fever as early, or for as long, as the Continentals. This allowed them to become literate, yet not become severely romantic. Meanwhile, in mainland Europe, Germanic traditions were infected. So while the same stories of the oral tradition live on for a bit, they were treated as vulgar and passe…sort of like the American Coastal Elite’s view of gun-toting Bible-thumpers.

[2b] We still see this today. My home, Texas, is to America what America is to the world. And it is absolutely lousy with strong, beautiful, independent women who are loud, obnoxious, and monstrously entitled–and the men who enable them. “Sassiness” is virulent. The majority are downright stiff-necked, crude, and ungrateful. Texans are, perversely, proud of this. Women like Sarah Palin are hugely popular down here, and seen as the epitome of conservative strength.

(This post was edited to correct attribution of the quote from Dalrock to Lewis.)

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9 thoughts on “On the Problem of a Romantic View of Germanic Women

  1. As a European aware of European history, I see you have a ‘make believe’ or ‘television or WWI/WWII propaganda derived’ knowledge of the period in question, concerning the topic of the “Courtly Love” in the Languedoche. Your views are warped by their Anglo cast. The Anglo rendition of ‘Fin ‘amor’ is a ‘hate campaign’ in an attempt to show how historically they are quite circumspect, no matter how much the record says otherwise. Because the movement of ‘Fin’amor’ is French, located in catholic regions. and speaks of a cultural sophistication the English have only been able to pretend to have – they hate it and wish and cultivate prejudice with inventions and lies – such as feminism and sexual promiscuity deriving from the cult of courtly love, instead of from the bastard marriage of a mongrel puritanism and Imperialism of Orwellian propaganda produced on the British Isles. And the Anglo hatred of men in general. Who tugs the forelock to women more than Anglos? Who are known internationally and historically for their love of homosexuality and pedophilia? Jolly Old England.
    You may not care and may just be happy spreading bullshit about matters above your pay grade. But believe me you will not and are not escaping the degradations your lies and opportunistic soiling of history, warping and twisting it for your propaganda moment. You are no different than feminist critics – neither of you know nothing of what you talk of, and expect your audience to be as equally as ignorant.
    Also you know nothing of Germanic women. You are not a Germanic, you do not think like a Germanic, you do not respect the things a Germanic would respect, like scholarship, provenance, reality. You are an Anglo-American, your thoughts are just a continuation of a low budget tv show.

  2. @U-572

    Welcome.

    It’s mildly funny when you start off with:

    As a European aware of European history, I see you have a ‘make believe’ or ‘television or WWI/WWII propaganda derived’ knowledge of the period in question

    and then spew a bunch of propaganda.

  3. There is no propaganda in my remarks. Your comments concerning Germanic women and the ‘Fin’Amor’ are made up pretensions. You know nothing of Germanic women and even less of European culture. Germanic women have no propensity to feminism or leftism. They have been subjected to a vicious campaign of Anglo-American social engineering, yet many retain something of their individual minds, and the ability to heal these psychological lesions.
    Fin’amor bears no relationship to cultural marxism. Nor does Romance or romantic love. That you say otherwise speaks to the absolute poverty of your understanding. Do not look outside yourself for fault, look within, that is where the fault lies.

  4. @U-572

    So far all you’ve done is :

    1) demonstrated a lack of understanding of the term Germanic
    2) accuse me of saying things I didn’t say
    3) tell lies.

    I think you’re just a troll.

  5. “Above your pay grade” is an Americanism that I first heard many years ago within the US military establishment. It came about when different services (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc.) came into increasing contact while serving together on “joint” staffs, which was the next big thing and apparently remains so to this day.

    Rather than bother with learning one another’s rank structure, people began referring to the corresponding pay grade, i.e. E-1 for the lowest enlisted rank, O-1 for the lowest officer, and so on; because this pay structure held for all services whether the O-6 was called a Captain (Navy, Coast Guard) or a Colonel (all others). Traditionalists hated it and still do.

    These days I see ‘above my/your pay grade’ references all over the place. The other day I heard it at church. Even Europeans aware of European history are using it.

    In 1943 the captain of U boat number 572 was shot for cowardice.

    https://infogalactic.com/info/German_submarine_U-572

  6. I don’t understand why people think it is a bad thing to treat women well. Men who are weak retreat from influencing social space in general and then it’s up to women to run things. That’s it. Texans will call anything they do “conservative” as it is a regional identifier.

    A.J.P.

  7. “Germanic women have no propensity to feminism or leftism.”

    Having lived in Germany for three years, this gave me a good laugh.

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