You Are Probably Alone at Church

Broadly speaking, men in churches go along with a woman-oriented religious practice and worldview for one of two reasons:

  1. They are Momma-boys. Either their mothers were (or are) the dominate people in their lives, or their mothers were (or are) missed in their lives and they try to recapture the experience.
  2. They attended formal education sometime after WWII. There these men learned that the most sure and peaceful path to doing what they want was to sit still, pretend to follow the lessons, and eventually–pleased with herself–the teacher will dismiss you from class.

The men in group one actually go out and buy Pink Christian books in an attempt to please their wives. These are the men who become house-husbands and SAHDs. And they cry a lot in comparison with other men.

There are a lot more men in group two. Their wives buy them the books which are thumbed through with a bit of Hmm-ing, and then put up on shelves in displays of fealty. These are the men who pretend to be house-husbands and SAHDs, but really they just nod at their wives while looking for a binge-watch.

These bastards are tricky not only to wives but also to you. It will seem, at times, as if they understand the perversion of women-led Christianity and that’s why they merely feign obedience to her desires. Nope. They actually don’t care all that much about anything outside their job and hobbies. It is comfortable for them to pretend to follow the nonsense lessons of servant leadership, send the wives out for GNOs, and make promises choreplay before turning on the Xbox while the kids eat chicken nuggets for dinner.

The Christian section of the Men’s Sphere often doesn’t like to discuss these guys because the sort of men who find the Men’s Sphere are often the sort of men who genuinely attempted to “lead” in housework and childcare, yet went unrewarded. But they do exist, and they are part of the problem in the same way as male employees who mouth corporate harassment and discrimination policies before they go back to surfing the web.

24 thoughts on “You Are Probably Alone at Church

  1. I don’t doubt their existence, although I’m not sure you could easily identify them. More insidious really than the true believer. Are they afraid, or are they just cynical, like the Inner Party members who don’t really believe the propaganda, but hey there’s a living in it.

    It’s rotten to the core and can’t be fixed, either. But I still go, old habits, etc.

    Currently watching a video series in story time sermon time, about relationships. (“Have to communicate, drop your expectations, etc.”) This one is by a well known speaker, charismatic and engaging, but when he gets on the subject of relationships he’s a total fuckup. I have to run interference with the family afterward. He’s too sophisticated an orator not to know exactly what he’s doing, with the coddling of women and the jabs at men for their sexual desire. Maybe he’s a Category 2. He’s either Cat 2 or he’s clueless, either one is bad.

    Anyway, his take, as with all pulpits and counselors, is that marital struggles represent a husband’s failure to operate on the wife’s terms. Now this may be true enough in its own way, but not in the way they mean, because their solution of course is to get with her program. Then the women feel better about themselves, and the men have a to-do list to knock out. It will absolutely not get them laid but they will feel great about it.

    Oh, and rock music. Rock musicians are effeminate (long hair, high voices, prancing and mincing on stage in flamboyant costumes or skinny jeans, singing love songs, stroking their phallic guitars), all designed to stoke women into a sexual frenzy. If I were a single man I’d quit church in despair, as no girl will notice you unless you’re either the pastor or the worship leader. Maybe the pastor is more likely to be Cat 2 and the worship leader a true believer?

  2. Everything you have said is true and needs to be pointed out and battled. Yet, lest I start to feel superior for not suffering from their “particular flavor of temptation” I try to remember this:

    …all [are] under the power of sin. As it is written:
    “There is no one righteous, not even one;
    there is no one who understands;
    there is no one who seeks God.
    All have turned away,
    they have together become worthless;
    there is no one who does good,
    not even one.

  3. @lckychrmsrr

    I attended formal education after WWII, as did pretty much every man alive. I am not a foreigner to those temptations. I came out of them; as did most in the Men’s Sphere.

  4. Yup, and I would be lying if I said both kinds don’t piss me off. In fact, just read Dalrock’s most recent post about that Fred Stoeker “guy” and can’t help but feel utter disgust and contempt for him (Type One).

    Yet, at least he’s someone who has publicly taken a stand (a satanic and sinful one) and can therefore be battled. That second group is much harder to identify and pin down.

  5. Very good description of group two. I think your summary was right. They just don’t care. They don’t necessarily want to go all the way along with feminism, but they don’t necessarily want to fight it, either. Lots of go along to get along.
    I know a few like that in real life, so your description hit as real.

  6. My experience relative to this point is funny, being in a traditionalist, yet sleepy, parish. The first group exists mostly among the clergy, who affirm orthodox doctrine, but are much too comfortable in their lace surplices. The second group also exists, but because their wives are also traditionalists, at least on the surface, and they don’t approve of pink Christian books. Instead, they work their rebellion under more cunning guises. The result is, ultimately, the same. For example, the women are appalled by female clergy, yet look askance at women who don’t go to college or families who actually expect their children to be present and pay attention during mass, instead of being shuffled off to children’s programs.

    At the same time, the excuse that these women are just filling a void created by the abdication of their husbands seems to actually be true. Before I became an Anglo-Catholic, I saw cases where this excuse was truly userpation on the DL, but I honesty believe that these women would submit if their husbands stood up to lead in religious matters (picking the wine or adjusting the guest list for a dinner party is another matter). Trouble is that these are all older women and they have no interest in passing their higher virtues on to the younger women, beyond hollow disapproval when they shack up or get pregnant before marriage.

    I started a men’s group to try to help the men do better (and to draw on their wisdom myself), but I have a hard time getting older men to understand the problem when their wives are so much better than the women churned out by our universities. They fall into the conservative trap of blaming young men. One in particular is a good man through and through, but all he sees is how great his son in law is for helping through choreplay. He’s blind to the fact that he has a (eastern European) wife who is an exemplary homemaker, while his daughter hangs on to her career.

    I suppose that you’re right in saying they’re focused more on their jobs and hobbies than truth, but the fact that they cling to certain talismans of orthodoxy, some in sincere devotion that far exceeds my own, adds an additional wrinkle that further insulates them from seeing things as they are.

  7. Some of you have likely just had limited experience. My son initially was singing the praises of house husbands and such when he had some disability payments to rely on. He was a house husband then, but played far too many computer games instead of really diving into home support, in spite of his claims at the time. (Though some of that was enabled because taking care of a home is not as hard as many women claim today.)

    He fortunately got his act together since then (having 2 more children may have helped) and know is the leading provider for his family. He still plays on his PS4 some, but it is much more limited, especially since he takes time with his children seriously, as he should.

    I goof off quite a bit myself, though it varies between reading and various forms of game playing. Though I am it at home now (due to the end of a long term marriage about a year and a half ago), so it is less of an issue. I should focus on productive things more than I do many times, but I am making what money I can and doing well overall, so I don’t see it as a limit.

    I would agree with the OP that those who claim to be following the feminist narrative are the biggest problem, even if they undermine it through their actions. At least that is a key takeaway for me from the OP.

    I did have one other man, whose wife completely flaked and who is raising 2 young daughters, indicate he has pretty much given up on women since his last girlfriend always implied she knew more than him on spiritual things, something very unlikely at all, but especially true in his case.

    Seeing the truth that a faithful woman who truly loves and serves the Lord is rare is necessary to deal with life as it is, but so few men really see that.

  8. Pingback: I Should Dress Like Cyrus Paice | Things that We have Heard and Known

  9. They are also the most likely to switch sides. Don’t hit them, but don’t expect them to save you.

  10. @Cane, I agree with you whole-heartedly. Let them experience the suffering of their choices.

    Lately, I’ve been finding myself more and more drawn to finding like-minded individuals beyond the nation-state as I watch the failure of the state as a tribe writ large.

    Doug Casey wrote some years ago that the future was going to be organized around philes, international groups of people with similar interests, and only superficially finding identity in the nation of their citizenship. However, he has a vested financial interest in the citizen of the world/ex-pat/multiple flags ideal.

  11. Cane & Anonymous Ng-
    Will they experience the consequences? Therein lies the problem. I have had to fight rebellion in my marriage at times. Things are better now. But the getting to here from there was hard. There was hardship along the way, but I don’t regret it for a second.
    The 3-4 guys I know in Cane’s group two are not suffering, though. They play their video games and say all the right things. Maybe one of them gets blindsided by a surprise divorce in a few years, sure, but 3 out of 4 ain’t bad. Leave them to die and let them suffer, but they won’t suffer. They are content with things as they are now.

  12. @ys

    I have no desire to see them suffer. I’m content to watch them die in dishonor; whether they know it or not.

    However; I do let them know, when the subject arises, that leadership without headship, and sloth, are dishonorable. Most of the time they just shrug. They don’t care. So I let the dead bury the dead.

  13. We are Christians, we shouldn’t look for enemies. We also don’t have to roll over and play dead as it is a warrior religion. There’s a fine line between the two.

  14. @GKC

    1) What Christian teaching says we aren’t to watch out for enemies? I can think of several which warn against falling in with the enemy.

    “Do not be deceived: Bad company corrupts good character.”

    2) What post or comment of mine advocates rolling over and playing dead? There are men “playing dead”, and who do not believe Christianity is a warrior religion. That’s groups1 and 2.

  15. Cane-
    We agree then more than I first realized. They will die in dishonor, they just won’t know it in most cases.

  16. That makes me kind of sad. I suppose that only savagery can come from such a backward and matriarchal perspective, so such a voluntarily-enslaved population will continue to see the Lash of God till they improve.

    A.J.P.

  17. You Are Probably Alone at Church

    If you have read in the Men’s Sphere and observed the actions discussed there come to pass, which turns out to be ridiculously easy once you’ve had it explained; then you will often leave church having heard something entirely different from everyone else present.

    It is in fact a feeling of being alone there.

  18. And what would you have us do???? Go on, I’m still waiting for a “woke” Christian to tell me a feasible plan

    Until then, forgive us for not wanting to blow ourselves up for absolutely nothing. I am not going to get myself publicly labelled as an Enemy of the Feminist State just so as to prove I’m not of this world or something.

    We need power wealth and connections to win this war. All these can only be achieved by keeping my mouth absolutely shut about my beliefs, at least in real life. You guys are all anonymous on the manosphere for good reason.

    And before you say it: no. Jesus’s mission of earth is to be lynched. Me getting lynched will not buy anyone Eternal Life.

  19. @Cane

    You and your post. While I may not completely represent the Group 2 man, I most definitely will play and act and say whatever the World/Church wants me to act and say. I have paid lip service to company and church diversity and harassment agendas to improve my standing. Few around me has a clue of my real beliefs: they think job and hobby is all I care about. I see this as wisdom and living to fight another day.

    Yes, I’m implying that perhaps some christian men in Group 2 may not be as indifferent as you think.

    I’m assuming (perhaps wrongly) that you are referring to men like me in your Group 2, If so, then my response is: and what would you have us do?

  20. I am really alone at church, that’s for sure. I’m reading White’s comments about keeping your mouth shut at work and church. I totally get it as far as keeping your mouth shut where you make money, if you have to be there, and you have bills to pay.

    I work from home, so I’m not in a sterile office with official harassment policies that say that I’m in trouble if someone overhears me talking about something that makes them uncomfortable (not here meaning dirty talk, but the example in the policy that was given of harassment was that someone might express the opinion that women are happier staying at home and having children). If I were still in such a place, I’d totally keep my mouth shut around coworkers (not to be confused with colleagues, who do not exist in these environments).

    As far as keeping quiet in church – in that place where I’m utterly isolated and alone anyway, both as a man (and being around warm bodies does not qualify as “not being alone”) – it’s a little trickier there. However, if it’s not an essential of the faith, why bother.

    If someone says I must deny Christ, I won’t, because “he who is ashamed of me before men, I will be ashamed of him in front of my Heavenly Father.” But when a woman stands up in church and says, “Jesus is my husband,” or when the men make the usual comments about how lost they’d be without their wives, aside from looking around in the pew hoping they provide barf bags like the airlines do, I’m usually not going to say anything.

    But once in a while I do speak up.

  21. CC, As you said, we all have the temptation, and then you noted Cat 2 ppl play games. It makes me think of the parable of the good seed, and the Cat 2 is the seed choked out by the deceits, riches, and cares of the world. As I mentioned at Dalrock’s today, my elders think all is good, but they are all watching NCAA basketball and none are being servants in the way they tell other husbands to be, though most are being led by their wive’s emotions.

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