I wrote earlier that I would write some thoughts on how one goes about living and moving in Babylon, the Necropolis. Here is the first draft of what I hope to become a fully-realized manual, or even possibly an organization.
- Men going into problem churches, or church-related problems, in elite teams of two or more. These men are armed with scripture and resources provided by other members. They should also travel with arms against physical foes. Jesus said:
35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”
When Jesus had first sent out the disciples he sent them out in twos:
10 After this the Lord appointed seventy-two others and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to go.2 And he said to them, “The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few. Therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I am sending you out as lambs in the midst of wolves. 4 Carry no moneybag, no knapsack, no sandals, and greet no one on the road.
“But now…” Jesus said, and has the state of things from that time–that now–changed? I don’t believe it has. I believe He meant from that moment going forward. I want to be clear that weapons are for defense on the way to the mission; not to accomplish the mission. The battle is not against flesh and blood, but we have to survive highwaymen and murderers to arrive at the spiritual battles to fight them. I would go so far as to say that any man who is not physically armed had better have an excellent reason.
I also note that the scheme of sending them out in groups has not changed. Jesus doesn’t send out individual heroes. I am strongly against the idea of “bootstrapping” a correction of a church.
We need an elite group of men who both drink the living waters, and who keep sharp eyes on their surroundings.
2. We need a resource for men searching for a church home. It is no longer enough to look at a church sign and determine what they practice. Churches of the Southern Baptist Convention, for example, say as a matter of faith and doctrine that they believe in families and churches led by men. In practice though, they vary. You will find among them Sunday School classes, and worship services, and Bible studies led by women.
As another example: Many believe that there are no churches which teach head-coverings by example. That’s not true. You can find some Anglicans who do (Even in America!), as well as some Pentecostals, and I believe some Lutheran as well. I’m sure I’m missing some.
Another example: The Biblical instruction for choosing elders/priests/bishops and deacons is the husband of one wife, and a father of children who are well-behaved believers. Is this true of the First Baptist Church of Podunk? Does he have a whore-mongering son? Does the pastor of Grace-filled Calvary Chapel have children in another state whom he does not see?
The point of this…database…would be to provide a catalog of churches which shows who they really are, and thus hold them accountable to the Scriptures, and force them to make a defense of themselves–to show themselves approved.
Feel free to criticize, suggest, or otherwise improve upon this barest of beginnings.
Things that We have Heard and Known 
Cane,
This seems like two different missions. Or maybe two separate tasks within the same mission.
Task 1: Turn Necropoli back towards Christ
Task 2: Create a database of living Churches
If I understand you correctly, Task 2 supports Task 1. The living Churches are the FOBs where we go to refuel, refit and dress our wounds so that we can go forward to the next Necropolis and hopefully turn it back towards Christ.
Am I reading you correctly? Am I correct in assuming that we take our families with us into the Necropoli?
@Oscar
That’s the hope, but not the goal; at least not how I’ve imagined it so. Goals need to be achievable, I think, and therefore lower level and specific. So my goal is to disrupt their supply lines, run psy-ops, smuggle out the living, establish our friendly supply lines, etc.
I notice that the Apostles and missionaries in the Bible, when they came against fierce opposition in the synagogues around the Roman Empire, they hit them with the Gospel, and ran. Where they could establish churches or convert synagogues into churches, they did.
This wouldn’t be a regular army, stand, fight, and take ground operation. It’s special ops.
I think the database needs to happen no matter what. What I’m still thinking about is who gets direct access. Should it all be public? Should it be positive, or negative, i.e., report the good guys, report the bad guys, or both, or only good guys publicly, and the bad guys to those within? Should a random person be able to search various criteria and pinpoint a church? I don’t know.
Various people have put forward the idea of Christians moving into a region or a town to “take it over”, but nothing comes of it. Part of the reason is because the US is huge. It’s crazy to move totally away from family. There is a need for many “take overs” in all the regions of the US. This will help put men in contact with one another.
Part of it is because of uncertainty. Where will we live? Where will we work? Who will be our friends? Etc. Well, with a list of both churches and people in the area we can put them in connection. As well, we can warn them off evil places. It’s tough when one gets settled in a church and then it turns out the church is harmful.
For example: Some churches don’t have female pastors because that’s not been their history, and so inertia makes them appear Biblical. But once a change is made and then that change is defended with twisted scripture, what is one man in the congregation supposed to do; especially if he has a family? A church can’t be grabbed by the reins and turned around. And it is often not good for his family to witness him “rebelling”–which is how his opponents will portray him. Someone needs to lift for him.
This project isn’t something to start tomorrow. This is to start planning today, and roll out months from now. In fact, I am sure this post will come down in the future. My plan right now is to find a core group (who are interested and trustworthy in word and deed) vet them, and be vetted by them.
This project isn’t something to start tomorrow. This is to start planning today, and roll out months from now. In fact, I am sure this post will come down in the future. My plan right now is to find a core group (who are interested and trustworthy in word and deed) vet them, and be vetted by them.
There’s a plan on the Vox Populi blog for Christians unchurched due to heresy/subversion to network and form Christian gatherings.
Not sure if you have heard about it or considered it in your post here.
Me, I’m in an interesting position where there was a giant void of leadership in my home church and I stepped in. Get to plan our ministry events and work with the youth group.
We don’t have head coverings, there’s a friendliness to the idea of female leadership and mutual submission, we’re a bit on the touchy-feely side in worship, pastor’s wife calls herself feminist … so I’m in an interesting place and time.
Would definitely love to hear wisdom from Christians here on challenging and pushing back. What’s a word for reverse subversion? Conversion? Refining?
“I think the database needs to happen no matter what. What I’m still thinking about is who gets direct access. Should it all be public? Should it be positive, or negative, i.e., report the good guys, report the bad guys, or both, or only good guys publicly, and the bad guys to those within? Should a random person be able to search various criteria and pinpoint a church? I don’t know.”
1. Public
2. Good Only. (You will be drawn into needless controversy as members and Pastors of ‘Bad Churches’ try to defend their churches and their practice. They will also bring you unwanted attention.)
3. Very clearly and loudly post your criteria (both positive and negative) for a good church and the process used to determine what a good church is. This will attract the right people and repel the wrong ones up front. Those offended or not interested will most likely not go any further.
Would be interested to see your thoughts on what makes a church good or bad in regards to the subject at hand.
@SH
I read VP regularly, but I had not seen that. Either way: That is definitely not something I want to do. This is not a para-church project, and I prefer to work within denominations and with pastors; when possible.
I think conversion is good. John C. Wright’s wife (I believe) has a SF/F blog called “Superversion”. I thought that was clever.
@Stryker
Thanks for the feedback.
Perhaps. My thinking for private is 1) I don’t want to inform the enemy; 2) I don’t want any lone rangers ruining the plan. Say we post that Everytown PCA is a good church. Then Alexander Dumbass goes there and proceeds to vent his polygamy theory, gets the boot, complains to everyone who will listen that the list isn’t reliable. The goal is to hook up good people with good churches. My experience with blogs is that exerting some control over conversations is just good practice.
My feelings align with this, but I’m also sure that unwanted attention will just happen. Right now there are people out there who write monstrously false slanders against me–for no reason. If it is pointed out that the Bible is clear on a teaching, some people will spend all day crying “LEGALISM!” like it’s their job.
Of course, this also gets back to the private/public debate. If it’s private, they won’t know who hit them.
Obviously, this will have a Protestant bent; perhaps exclusively. I don’t know.
As far as criteria: I think that will be one of the first things the core group works out. Personally, for example, I think head-coverings are important, but I wouldn’t straight-away discount a church which had no practitioners. However, if it ever became known they were against head coverings, or discouraged them, then that would be bad. Others might disagree. St. Paul is pretty forceful about the issue.
Since it’s been brought up recently at Deep Strength’s: Polygamist cults, if discovered, would be in the bad category.
I read VP regularly, but I had not seen that. Either way: That is definitely not something I want to do. This is not a para-church project, and I prefer to work within denominations and with pastors; when possible.
It came up in the comments. (VD commissioned Markku to build it) It’s still an idea, so the actual implementation is in the air.
I think there is synergy with your idea. The VP system is mainly aimed at Christians without a home church, so those users will have information to populate your database on known bad churches. They will be interested in finding approved churches.
Some may even be up for the task of reclaiming churches.
@Cane Caldo:
“my goal is to disrupt their supply lines, run psy-ops, smuggle out the living, establish our friendly supply lines, etc.”
Great project. You’ve got me thinking about finding some backup. At this point, I’ve designated myself a one man guerrilla army operating behind churchian lines. It did not occur to me to “go by twos”. Finding the other guy may be a slight problem, but I’ve really just gotten started.
I had not thought beyond “smuggling out the living”, which to me means finding the men that already sense something is odd; and pointing out what I’m learning about it. In this particular case, it all has to do with creeping church fempowerment. Whatever they do with the information remains to be seen.
I don’t want to over-dramatize my guerrilla role (well I kind of do), because the fact is my current church is not wholly gone round the bend by any means. However, I have learned that we believe in complementarianism, which I did not know (and only recently learned about at Dalrock); and we have a lot of women with trousers and short hair running various sub-ministries (children, hospitality, women’s groups – so far). So the signs are there.
“Then Alexander Dumbass goes there and proceeds to vent his polygamy theory, gets the boot… ” ~ CC
I used to think that was a long-settled issue in the Church. Then I started hanging around the Christian androsphere.
I have not yet found a church where the pastor and his family doing anything: inappropriate, heretical, hurt anyone’s feelings, admit to wrong doing, etc etc.
I know of 3 good teachers locally. First one’s oldest son just committed suicide last spring at the age of 21. Second one had an affair in a previous church, never admitted to physical relationship until the church almost crumbled. He took two years off and started his own church. He gets tons of new people, but they leave on a regular basis so it stays at around 400-600. Third one is small and still sings hymns with a piano and has a good 1 hour teaching that goes so slow it takes upwards of 4 1/2 years to get through a book. His kids are perfect. I mean perfect. They have never done anything wrong…. ever. He and his wife haven’t either…. never.
If anything pastor/family #1 are the nicest outwardly and they had said their son struggled with the reality of God and his sexual identity. I do not know if they pushed him, but knowing the pastor as well as I do, he was most likely just very blunt in his beliefs. His wife works full time though and I think she runs the family. Same with #3. She was raised in scientology and being born again I think she uses tactics she learned growing up.
CC,
I grew up RC, but have since recovered. Not to offend. I did do Plymouth Brethren who still does head coverings etc. What I witnessed is that some of the home churches get very legalistic. I have given up on corporate worship due to poor teaching and do home study with my kids and wife.
One of the things I use to believe was essentials and non essentials beliefs. I think that when these pastors use the “we believe in ABCD”, but disagree on EFGH, they use it as a ridiculous business ploy. I would say there is one proper interpretation of scripture and ALL of it is essential with a big fat PERIOD.
These guys are trained to come up witth 50 interps for one single verse throughout the bible. The problem with this, is that they can now use 50 different ones mixed with other verses that they will use with another one of their 50 interps. Not only are they watering the word down, but in many cases it confuses sheep and can lead to poor teaching, leading women and men astray. Luke warm.
Phew. You’ve been on a roll, Cane. That’s a compliment, and I encourage you to keep it up, but I’m having a hard time processing your ideas fast enough to make substantive contributions.
I would call your approach red-pill Protestant ecumenism. Maybe that’s what you’re going for, but it’s definitely where you lost me. I have previously identified myself here as an Anglican, but it would be more precise to say Anglo-Catholic (though anti-papist and Protestant-friendly). Consequently, the fact that your manual doesn’t address the incorporation, preservation, or encouragement of Holy Orders is a deal breaker. You have considered this, no doubt, but I believe you’re exposing your nascent movement to the great danger of big personalities by omitting that. I’m alluding here to be concise, but I can expand if needed.
As an interesting aside, I found my current parish using lists like the one you propose: http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/kaysplace/-finding.html and http://www.sscamericas.org/links/links.html All criticisms aside, I am very thankful for those resources (I’ve even used them when traveling to find safe havens for mass), so if you create something comparable, you’ll be doing a great service to the Christians who agree with the criteria you establish. Having that experience, I would favor a public-good, private-bad database. Let the wheat and polygamist tares separate themselves.
Going in twos is, for me, the key takeaway. The idea of a lone Bible-thumper changing the world is unbiblical and too mixed up with archetype of the American pioneer. It’s alway men in groups who get things done, both on the frontier and in the church.
I’m surprised at your view on personal weapons. I’m a big fan of guns, and I don’t claim to have a perfect interpretation of that passage which is so often tortured into an opposition of personal defense, but our Lord rebukes Peter for using his weapon a few verses later. How you turn that into an obligatory call to arms I cannot understand. On a purely practical level, I have difficultly imagining when your elite teams would even need to be armed, at least as it relates to their mission. For all its faults, the Necropolis is a place of great physical safety (one of its principal appeals, really). When was the last time you even heard the word “highwayman” outside of a Jimmy Webb song?
I have the utmost respect for you among the bloggers I follow in this neighborhood, but this entry into the realm of practical opposition lacks the thoughtfulness and piercing insight I’ve come to expect. Still, I will read this post seven more times looking for the thing I missed and anxiously await the next installment because I have to believe you’re going to take this somewhere better, and in the end, doing something imperfectly is better than doing nothing.
Here endeth your requested criticism.
@Ryder
I realize now that the title is a bit misleadging. This is the beginning of a draft–a beginning of a first draft, even. It is far from exhaustive. I am actively seeking input such as yours here.
As I said: Not for the mission. It seems clear to me that Christ is saying He is sending them out again, and again in groups, but this time to be armed against the world.
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/09/media_calls_charlotte_riot_a_protest.html
From the article: “After a brief lull, the crowds regrouped early Wednesday and blocked Interstate 85. They started a fire at the center of the highway, forcing vehicles and tractor-trailers to stall as far as the eye could see. Police cars with flashing lights hovered nearby.
Some protesters removed boxes from the back of semitrailers and set the items on fire. Police in riot gear formed a line and forced crowds away from the highway.”
@Ryder
For the record: I am for Holy Orders.
Regarding the draft status and Holy Orders: I get that and I even get why you would leave it out, but I am greatly comforted to know you acknowledge their importance. My flesh hates being a stickler about that, but I believe it’s the Truth. At the risk of finding another point of disagreement, though, I would clarify that I mean Holy Orders in Apostolic Succession. As much sustenance as I’ve found in Protestant circles, I cannot escape it.
Regarding weapons: I understand the distinction you’re making, but even in our current unrest, I think wiliness is more valuable than firepower. I notice that only police vehicles were targeted in your example, and I expect a hypothetical special ops force could have avoided danger with their wits more effectively than with arms.
As for being armed against the world I agree, but in our world, I argue that something as pedantic as knowledge of contracts is more frequently useful than marksmanship. It’s unsexy, but I have personally done more good in protecting the people of my parish by keeping us legally unencumbered than I have with force. As a longtime supporter of our movement toward greater masculinity, I long to shew myself a man martially, but I find that success is more often measured in boring, bureaucratic inches.
Please understand, I’m not making an either or argument. I just interpret our Lord’s words in a more “wise as serpents” vein. At a time when the rule of law stopped at the city gates, that meant weapons, now it may mean other things in addition to weapons or in place of weapons, depending on where you live. Regardless, weapons, among men who desire to reclaim their masculinity, can be a dangerous distraction.
@Ryder
I am inclined to agree with you. At the same time: I am not not convinced of the case for Apostolic Succession such as defined by the RCC. The case of Scipione Rebiba was instructive for me: He is the apostolic ancestor of the vast majority of RC bishops, yet there is no account of his apostolic ancestry. Interestingly, he arrives on the historical scene just after Martin Luther and Henry VIII.
What? You asked about highwaymen. I gave a report of trucks looted on a highway last week by agitated blacks. That’s not to say anything about the increasingly frequent “lone wolf” terrorist acts by Muslims everywhere and by blacks in Chicago, Baltimore, etc.
Suppose Trump wins: Have you considered what it looks when 20-40 million people decide to either resist deportation, or migrate back en mass? The potential for widespread crime and violence is also massive.
If Trump wins, riots, terrorism and so forth are going to get worse. If Hillary wins, bureaucratic troubles are going to get worse, and then riots will get worse.
The rule of law doesn’t protect people. The rule of law punishes transgressors. By then, it is too late. My view is that we Christians have been swindled into believing that America or government will look out for us because… Well, because nothing. The Bible says to be obedient to our governments, but to rely on Him. I would argue that it is more to rely on God through the acts of overt Christians than to rely on gov’t agents who are likely-as-not unfriendly.
I will be watching this from afar, since I am on the other side of the world. Would have loved to sign up and be a part of this.. fight…
Then again, I am not sure if I can be ready for this when I am building my own family with a wife that has never been taught about what it means to be a helpmeet and I, as a leader, who has never been properly mentored or groomed. Until I sort this out, it may make sense for other Christian brothers who have raised up strong Christian families to fight the good fight on the front lines.
@chokingonredpills: “I am building my own family with a wife that has never been taught about what it means to be a helpmeet and I, as a leader, who has never been properly mentored or groomed.”
This is how I started out and progress has been painfully slow, but discernible. I could make the case that the little mentoring I did have was counterproductive, being heavily inclined toward satisfying the feminine at all costs.
One man’s opinion, you and I are not unique in modeling that testimony. My conviction is that the Grace of God is sufficient to the task, though there will not be anything easy about it. Stay the course.
I know this is not news to you, but worth bringing to mind on a regular basis. I have tested this and found it solid.
(Proverbs 3:5-6)
Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.
@ chokingonredpills says:
September 28, 2016 at 3:43 am
“Then again, I am not sure if I can be ready for this when I am building my own family with a wife that has never been taught about what it means to be a helpmeet and I, as a leader, who has never been properly mentored or groomed.”
Dude, that’s all of us.
@ Ryder
http://heatst.com/culture-wars/charlotte-horror-how-trapped-drivers-pleaded-with-911-to-rescue-them-from-seething-mob/
“I’m trapped,” one motorist told the 911 dispatchers. “They’re all in the street … Oh my God, they’re coming!” Screams could be heard in the background, according to local media who reviewed the tapes.
One family who had their window smashed by a rock was instructed by a 911 dispatcher to get to safety before pulling over to inspect the damage. “I’m still stuck in this,” the driver told emergency services. “I would like to get out of it before I pull over.”
@ Cane and Oscar
Mea culpa. That’s what I get for skimming the article. Upon reflection, I also see that I got off topic by bringing up the value of more abstract and bureaucratic armaments. You guys are talking about very different circumstances and you may be right that we’re entering a time when unrest makes being armed a necessity. That’s not yet the case in my neck of the woods, but I see your point.
I still push back at your interpretation of Jesus’ instructions, though. I don’t have a full explanation of what He meant, but to mandate that all missionaries, save a few special cases, arm themselves seems so out of sync with Christian tradition and the lives of the saints that there’s got to be a more nuanced explanation. I think this small potatoes in the grand scheme of your instructions, however, so I’ll not make into a bigger disagreement than it is.
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Not sure how I missed this, much props on pointing out how church leaders should be appointed.
I think a professional clergy that basically goes from high school to pastor/ priest and is likely problem #2 for the church.
For what it’s worth, I think the list of churches should be of the positive sort if the data base is public/ open and both if the data base is protected information. At least for as long as you are in the gathering resources and marshaling your strength stage. It is an insurgency after all. No point in picking fights until you have the strength to win them
Personally I favor creating small church homes over trying to salvage the various modern denominations. Once you have a secure base of operations to train, support etc your teams, send them into churches to recruit new members for your home church net work. Works all the time in non-church environments. Basically look out how the various marixist movements organized and operated
I appreciate what you are saying here because I recently tried to “bootstrap” at my (now former) church. I had no support at the church, and decided to confront the pastor individually. Created a ton of blowback, and may have ultimately hindered my message.
The problem is that some of us (as you rightly point out) are alone in this fight and the only way we can find like-minded men is throughout the internet, usually over vast distances.
This man has implemented your full manual already with some serious international impact as several countries even moved to ban him altogether due to the effectiveness of his setup.
Check it out: youtube.com/sanderson1611.
@chokingredpills:
Re: helpmeet
It may be your wife doesn’t know how to be one because that isn’t the right word. The correct wording is two words: an help, meet ( suitable, appropriate ) for him.
I was in a Sunday morning service a couple of years ago and the pastor made a joke about setting up an online database similar to trivago.com or tripadvisor.com but for churches. Members and visitors could log on and post their criticisms or accolades about the churches they had attended.
He was joking but I left that service and thought what a good idea, and I wanted to get started on such a thing. But its always the criteria that makes it very difficult, almost impossible. In fact the reason there are so many different protestant denominations is because of the splits over doctrines.
The other problem I have encountered when trying to enlighten clerics to the evils of feminism is this. The more invested in a thing someone is, the less likely they are to leave it. Jesus said your heart will be where your treasure is. Often these guys are so heavily invested in the current status quo [feminised churchianity] they cannot bear the thought of rocking the boat.
I wish you every success with this venture but us red pill christians are as divided as any cross section of christianity.
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I read this post and thread today along with this one about Christians engaging cultural Marxism on college campuses.
https://pjmedia.com/faith/2016/10/06/6-ways-christians-can-fight-the-cultural-marxism-on-college-campuses/
I realized that it’s a sin to send Xian kids alone to college expecting them to do such a thing. And you obviously can’t count on a cuck organization like Cru to be there. IV is better, but it’s not their ultimate goal.
Orgs like Summit Ministries claim to prepare Xian kids for intellectual attacks in college, but I don’t think* they recognize this principle, that young men and women should enter these fields only accompanied by known allies. Frankly, I’d say two is a minimum.
We need to pull together and take this approach in all of these battlefields.
*I’m not deeply familiar w/ any of these orgs, so maybe they mention it.